Speaker 1 (00:02.284)
Welcome to the Physician Family Financial Advisors Podcast, where physician moms and dads like you can turn today's worries about taxes and investing into all the money you need for retirement and college. I'm Ben Utley.
And I'm Nate Rennecke. Today we are talking about sexy financial planning for physician families. Sexy? Yeah. Yeah. Financial planners shouldn't be talking about this. Or boring.
Sexy?
Speaker 1 (00:25.729)
Financial planning's never sexy.
Speaker 1 (00:32.77)
Yeah, we're boring. Well, I don't know. It depends on how long you've been married, whether or not sex might be boring.
Yeah, well, that's true. Maybe. Yeah. So, well, the reason we're talking about this is Valentine's Day is coming up.
Happy Valentine's Day to you physician families.
So what brought this episode about is Ben, were looking for some research, something that us financial planners doing research about how physician couples utilize and communicate about money.
Yeah, we went into Google looking for ways to communicate about money.
Speaker 2 (01:14.316)
Yeah, what are people saying? What's the research say?
Not a whole hell of a lot come to find out.
Right, exactly. And also what we know without looking into the research is that usually one spouse is more comfortable with this topic than the other spouse in the families that we work with, which means that this topic can be kind of hard to communicate about. so when we were kind of typing in some keywords, maybe not just about money, but how do you communicate about hard topics, things like that, the
The topic that actually came up with a ton of research behind it was sex.
how to communicate about sex.
Speaker 2 (01:57.806)
communicate, do it better, all those things. And we realized as we reading it, that all the things that the researchers were saying to how to communicate better about sex, how to do it more often, all these things really could just be turned into talking about money.
Exactly. So today we present sexy financial planning for physician families where we're going to replace all the references to sex with references to money.
There you go. So we came up with five things to think about when communicating about finances with the person you love.
I'm ready, mate. I'm ready. Bring it on. What's the first tip?
The first thing you should do is fantasize about it.
Speaker 1 (02:41.664)
Ooh, fantasize about it, okay.
Yes. So it's a way that I talk the way that I kind of explain this when I'm doing planning is that if someone has no idea where to start with money, they don't get it. It's not exciting to them. The topic is hard to talk about. We start with the end in mind and we sort of think what's important to you about money or what goal would get you excited. Maybe everything you're doing to get to the goal is not exciting.
And I would say that no fantasy is off-limit, right? Because, I mean, it's a fantasy. It's something that only appears in your head. It's not something you have to discuss. So, like, I think it would be the things that get your juices flowing about money. So, for example, for some people that might be the idea of paying off the house, right? Because that gets some people really excited. For other people, it might be, like, unlimited shoes.
Right. My money fantasy is to have enough money to buy unlimited shoes. you know, like any fantasy, doesn't, these fantasies don't have to be socially acceptable. They don't have to be perfect. They don't have to be in line with what a financial advisor or sex therapist would consider kosher. These are fantasies for you about your money life and kind of the things that
that you think would be interesting, to kind of get the juices flowing this direction.
Speaker 2 (04:13.144)
That's right. And when we when we talk about this week, we have a label for it. It's the wish list.
The wish list.
Yeah, so the fantasy the money fantasy list is your wish list and it's just wishes So that's the first one is is fantasize about it. The second one is
Well, hold on before we move on get give me Give me a deep dark secret about Nate. What what is one? Financial fantasy that would go on your your wish list
I have one that's deep. It's deep and dark. You know how everybody that wants to do their finance is perfect? They talk about how much you can waste when you eat out at restaurants. How big of a waste it is. My secret is that I love spending a lot of money at restaurants.
Speaker 1 (05:05.836)
Yes, particularly sushi restaurants.
Yes, sushi. I was just at a nice restaurant for my anniversary and I just don't, it's just part of me that just doesn't care that that steak was $100.
Wow.
Yeah, it's terrible.
I get the best at home. don't have to go out to satisfy my financial fantasies. I get the best stake at home. Okay, so here's mine. I fantasize about being able to move kind of out to the country because it's quiet. And that would take a lot of money to do that and move my family and all those things. So that's my deep dark financial fantasy.
Speaker 2 (05:45.25)
Yeah, and they don't have to happen, but they're on the list.
Yes, relatively mild financial fantasy.
Yeah. Okay, so number two. Focus on the thing that turns your partner on.
So now I'm gonna have to think about not what I want, what my partner wants.
That's right. And so that's right. So you're filling out your wish list or your fantasy list. And then so is your partner. And you at some point, you need to switch lists and look at them. Look at each other's list.
Speaker 1 (06:21.934)
It's kind of scary like it is so there might be some things on my list that I feel a little Vulnerable about maybe there might be a little bit over the edge, you know right and then I'm kind of afraid of what my partner's fantasizing about with their money because Like I might not be into that
That's right. You might not be into it. It may not be kind of what everybody's saying is the right thing to do. Right? A lot of people that, a lot of physicians I speak with, they're talking to other physicians and they're also reading blogs and things like that. And there's a right and a wrong thing to do with your money, but that has nothing to do with what you want.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:04.064)
It kind of reminds me of like sex in the seventh grade. Everybody's talking about it and nobody's doing it the right way.
Yeah, right. So you should focus on what your spouse or your loved one wants. And at some point, once you're comfortable, you can combine lists.
coming together in one place, on one list, with a magical collaboration.
Yep. And here's the key. Here's the thing that will give everybody the freedom to truly put down what they want on their list. They are going to have a they're going to come together. The spouses will come together and they will rearrange the list. So while it will stay on the list, you know, your deepest, darkest money fantasies, they might be at the bottom and you may never get there. But usually what I've seen is people feel heard.
and they feel like, well, if things go really well, we might get to the bottom of the list and have these really expensive restaurant trips like I have. But for right now, it's not a top priority.
Speaker 1 (08:09.696)
Now, what if there's something she's not into? Like, let's say that you swap lists with your wife and she's like, gosh, Nate, unlimited steak. I'm really not down with this. I just can't get into it. Like, how would you handle that?
Well, in marriage we have this little thing called compromise. Yeah, that's far enough down the list. You might just cross it out. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:32.258)
Okay, cool. maybe, what if steak is like your number one financial fantasy and that is really the thing that you're most jonesing for and like, you just can't imagine having unlimited steak with anybody but your wife. Like how would you handle that if she's really totally not into it?
Speaker 2 (08:53.09)
I would probably leave it on the list or just be okay with the fact that we might rewrite this list over time and get comfortable with things. And it also opens up in a truly open environment. will open up the door to discuss it. And if two people are compatible, usually there's a reason like that my spouse wouldn't understand right now about why I want steak so much.
but may in the future. And it just, it's an opening the door rather than shutting it. That's the whole purpose of the exercise. What do you think? That's how I.
If I hear you correctly, what you're saying is you're kind of like, okay, maybe she's not into steak right now. Maybe she'll be into steak later. Like if she's not into unlimited steak, then maybe there's some other way around this. Maybe it could be unlimited rice or something like that. Some substitute, maybe unlimited chicken, but you guys would allow room for change and room for conversation about it.
That's right. you know, in this example, this has actually happened many times in my life when I realized that the reason that she's not that into it is it might be because of our kids or something. Like, the kids hate steak and I don't want to make it for you every night.
Maybe she had childhood trauma around unlimited steak. You just need to be sensitive to that.
Speaker 2 (10:20.526)
And what can happen is over time, either the kids can start to like it or the kids will move out and there'll be a different stage of life where that is acceptable. come back to the list, keep adding, keep subtracting. It's not ever over. Ready for number three?
Wasn't that number three? I don't know if I can take any more of this. I'm way out of my comfort zone here.
No, that's two.
Speaker 2 (10:47.542)
Okay, so number three is schedule a time to do it.
Yeah. So this doesn't seem very sexy, but we all know for married, sometimes you have to schedule this kind of stuff. And this is, this is what you get out of it, Ben. Okay. It's not just so that it happens. Sell it. Yeah. This is, I actually really believe in this one. Because I'm a, I used to talk about money all the time and my wife,
is open to talking about money because she understands the importance of doing the right thing with money, but she doesn't want to talk about it all the time. And so what she can do to kind of bring her A game to the money talk is agree on when we're going to do it so she can sort of gear up for it.
that sounds really good.
Yeah, this is a real. Yeah. Because if not, then it's just not really fair. mean, I'm going to spring it on her like that. And I have all these, you know, we're just this is my job. This is what I like to do. And she doesn't have the firepower to just to keep up with me.
Speaker 1 (12:02.958)
We don't schedule it. This loses the ambiance and the romance and the surprise of not having gratuitous, instantaneous financial conversations. doesn't this kind of rein everything in and make it a really rote exercise that you just do every week or every month without really thinking about it? mean, shouldn't personal finances be more spontaneous and more free?
That's funny because that's our fourth one, which is don't surprise your partner.
sorry, I a killer art
That's okay. No, this these kind of these go together Okay, so I scheduled time to do it and don't surprise them and you'd think it's not so spontaneous anymore But it but the reality is with many things that are difficult Spontaneous isn't gonna cut it. Yeah, like you have to plan it you have some some one side of the relationship one person usually has to warm up to the idea right and everybody
Everybody sort of brings their own background and expectations into this money conversation. And it makes it very difficult to do it on a whim.
Speaker 1 (13:20.75)
I see. see. Right. Okay. So hold on a minute. you say that we schedule our financial conversation every week on Sunday, like you do in your household. And then the in-laws come over and we can't have our financial conversation or the kids have a sleepover and we can't have our financial conversation. Like, and I desperately wanted that conversation this week, but it's not happening. like, how do I, how do I deal with the disappointment of not having a
a financial moment with my chosen spouse.
Well, I can tell you what's worked for me. And this tends to work for the side of the physician marriage that kind of works like me where they like to talk about money. I am able to set it aside and not talk about it that week. But there's a strategic reason why. so it's not just because I know my spouse would love not to talk about
but it is because I'm showing them that it's not the most important thing to me.
Oh wow, girl points.
Speaker 2 (14:30.062)
Yeah, it's totally true. mean, so next time, two weeks later, when I didn't talk about how we missed it and how we desperately need to get on and talk about this boring thing to them. Yeah. They are. mean, my spouse is all in. She knows this isn't like top thing on my mind all the time.
So next week when she shows up and she's ready to go and excited to talk about financial stuff, it's just that much better then. And you probably have some deferred gratification that's all built up and you're excited about talking about it. And you've probably thought a lot more about what you're gonna say.
It's that much better.
Speaker 2 (15:05.368)
Yeah, sometimes those are the moments where you get sort of past the surface level in the conversation. You get really deep into this uncomfortable topic because you've built up some energy for it.
Nice.
Right. Okay. So, so far we have fantasize about it, focus on the thing that turns your partner on. This is the wish list. schedule a time to do it, which doesn't feel very sexy, but it's effective. don't surprise your partner. I think that's really just comes down to it being fair for the one that doesn't enjoy talking about it. and then the last one is don't compare the way you do it to the way others do it.
Hold on a minute. Let me soak that up. Don't compare the way we do it To the way others do it so if I'm the financial spouse and I'm in the break room after you know scrubbing out It's not it's not good for me to listen to how my my buddies and their spouses do it I should basically just pay attention to my marriage and my financial life
and not compare, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (16:21.592)
That's right. Yeah. We know this for from pretty much every aspect of life that if you are comparing yourself to others, that is a huge source of disappointment. Yes. But but it's for more reasons than like kind of what's on the surface. A lot of times when your buddies are talking about it, they're only telling you the the squeaky clean version of what they want to tell you. The best. not telling you about the
Yeah, the the ugly parts. Yeah, and so it would be unfair to yourself to compare to only the good parts Right. What's the other reason you had a really good one? About comparing when we were talking about this
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05.858)
Well, I think at least in physician culture, you you always put your best face forward. It's not okay to fail. It's not okay to show weakness. but you know, we know because we see everything. We see people with their financial pants down, know, we really know what's going on. And I got to tell you, your colleague who is telling you they've got it all together. sometimes we see them are like, holy cow, what'd do?
So, you know, be careful as you compare because I guess the other thing is we always compare up, right? So if you're making a certain amount of money and your partner's making more, you tend to compare up. But if you're going to be real about it, you need to compare down as well. So if you do decide to play the comparison game, be fair to your spouse, be fair to yourself and your relationship that you not only look ahead, but you look behind.
If you want to look outside the physician world You can look very very far behind, you know, that's right people that are having far less financial than you are and Some with very broken financial lives
That's right. Yeah. I've seen this a lot where there is one financial spouse in the physician family relationship who has such high standards and the other one just doesn't get it. Don't we make plenty of money? Aren't we doing okay? They literally feel like they're not doing well with money. Yeah. But it just, it just comes down to this comparison game and you're comparing yourself to what seemingly looks like perfect people.
I know this isn't part of our outline, but I want to inject a thought here. I would advise people to stay away from financial porn. So, porn is where you follow somebody's podcast or somebody's blog post or you read a magazine and they're talking about all the sexy things that people are doing in there and you're like, why can't I have that? know? And there's just a...
Speaker 1 (19:03.032)
there are just some things that you can't have, there are things you shouldn't have, then there are other things that are not good for you, and they're not good for your relationship with money, and your relationship with your spouse around money. like your sex life, be careful what you put in your brain. Be careful what you pull into your relationship. And if you have questions about that, then, you know, talk to somebody.
Maybe us, or maybe a trusted friend, or heck, even your shrink if you have one. Talk about these things because it can be damaging if you hold your financial life and your spouse's financial life to an overly high standard, an unachievable standard. There'll be constant disappointment and that's toxic to your relationship with money and your spouse.
And Ben, constant disappointment is not sexy.
No, Occasional gratification with money is sexy enough, right? You know, Nate, all kidding aside, this is, this still is a very important topic. And I think there is a parallel around between personal finance and sex. And it is just this, it is not the act of personal finance.
That's right. Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:16.258)
It's not the act of talking about your finances. It's not the act of doing it that matters. What really matters is the communication that happened around the act. This is an opportunity for you to actually deepen your relationship with your spouse, to come to a new agreement about how things are, to become more vulnerable and share more with the most important person in your life, to be able to come together on the same page.
you know, really improved not just your finances, but the quality of your marriage and, and your connection with that person. So I'm to get cheeky here for just a second. So I know that everybody who's listening, physician moms and dads, we know that you do finance together and we know that you do other things together because you have kids. It's, it's proof positive that you are, you're active in your life. And so, I want to let you know about
a new thing that we have available at physicianfamily.com slash go. And this is the DIY doctors college plan workbook. This workbook gives you all the tools that you need to be able to plan out how much you need to save for college from the get-go. And it gives you some ideas about how to invest and where to invest. It's the kind of thing that you can sit down and work with a pencil and less time than it takes to change an explosive diaper. It costs less than a day's worth of childcare.
And if you haven't started planning for college yet, this is a great place to start. Also want to let you know, we've given a new coat of paint to the overtax doctors guide to retirement 2023, including all the latest tax tips to help you save taxes while you save for retirement. Well, I hope you enjoyed the show. Thanks for listening to the physician family financial advisors podcast. we love to hear from you. If your question is used on the air, then you will have an opportunity to select for free.
your own copy of the Overtaxed Doctor's Guide to Retirement or the DIY Doctors College Plan Workbook. We look forward to hearing from you and thanks a bunch.
Speaker 2 (22:16.718)
Thank you for listening to the Physician Family Financial Advisors Podcast. Is there a question you would like answered on our show? Go to PhysicianFamily.com to record your question. While you're there, sign up for our newsletter and gain access to tools you can use to turn worries about taxes, investing extra money into a lifelong feeling of financial security. That's PhysicianFamily.com.
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