PFFAP-PYP-21-1201-Set Financial Goals
Ben: [00:00:00] Welcome to the physician, family financial advisors podcast, where return today's worries about taxes, investing and extra money into a comfortable feeling of financial security to last a lifetime. I'm Ben Utley
Nate: and I'm Nate Ranchi today's question is should doctors bother to set financial goals? So then let's start by just defining a goal.
What is a goal?
Ben: A goal is. Let me think a goal is really like a dream and writing. Cause everything starts off as a kind of a picture in our head or a feeling in our gut. You know, something that we, we don't, we don't all just start out with a real specific goal. I think that they kind of evolve over time.
In fact, goals kind of there's this thing called smart goals, SMA RT and smart stands for specific. Measurable attainable or slash achievable, rewarding and timely. So an example of a goal, like a, [00:01:00] one of my goals for the coming year is to exercise 50 minutes every other day. So it's specific and I'll be, I'd use a treadmill.
So, uh, I'll be walking on my treadmill that specific 50 minutes or every other day that's measurable. Achievable. Can I do it? Yeah, I've, I've been walking like almost every day. Um, But I want to definitely walk every other day. Is it, uh, is it rewarding gal? I'll feel like I'm not gonna croak of a heart attack when I'm, uh, when I'm too young and is it timely?
Yeah, it's, it's definitely for, uh, at least the first quarter of next year. So that's, that's what a smart goal looks like.
Nate: Okay. So, um, a dream without being specific, measurable, attainable, you know, rewarding and time-based is just. It's it's it's, there's no real roadmap to get there. That's what I'm hearing is that.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. And there's something magic about writing them down, you know, like if you actually write down a goal that I don't know what it is, but over the years, as I've kind of played around with goals and experimented, I've [00:02:00] found that having a goal is, is cool, but writing it down, uh, something about it just makes it like come to life.
The magic happens.
Nate: Right? Okay. Well, most people don't write them down, you know, there's lots of. Th there's a lot of things that we all want, but we don't get real specific and, you know, make it measurable and all the other things that go along with a smart goal. So let's, let's define what is not a goal, but maybe, sometimes people think they're goals.
So what does that, okay. So what do we see
Ben: in, in that kind of a, kind of a, a goal, but not really goal like a, I guess it's something that's like, not smart. Right? So, yeah. Um, if I was going to brand that, I would say that that's. An intention. So here's an example of what attachment, like. And, you know, at this time of year, you always hear people say, oh, I want to lose weight next year, or I want to get physically fit or, uh, you know, I want to be smarter.
I want to read more. I want to spend more time with family. It's like, it usually has a more, or a less in it. An [00:03:00] intention does the problem with intentions is they're not specific enough that you can really tell if you, if you've done them or not. So, uh, nothing wrong with pursuing an intention, trying more, but I think, uh, The place where intentions and goals part ways is, is when folks have unintended.
And they don't somehow magically get to the finish line because the finish line is not defined. Then it's easy to feel bad about yourself and say, oh, you know, I failed to reach a goal. Well, no, you, you succeeded with, with pursuing an intention. And, uh, you know, next time you went that that feeling of crossing the finish line, you have to define it.
You have to actually set a goal.
Nate: Right? I think we'll get more into this, um, later, but defining it can be difficult if you don't understand the Goldberg.
Ben: Yeah, that sounds a little, like a little nuts because it's my goal. Right? I should, I should understand the goal, but I found that if it, you know, if it lacks some of those elements, some of the [00:04:00] more specific things, like, I guess the question is like, could you tell somebody else what your goal is and then make a bat, you know?
Uh, and, uh, if you can make a bet, usually there's, there's going to be something measurable involved, uh, as opposed to just a more, or allows.
Nate: Okay. So most people know kind of, kind of in general, what they want. Maybe they can't get specific about it, but what about the people who literally don't they don't know what they want.
They, they hear that maybe they should want something, but they can't get specific about it. And they just don't know how to make it measurable. Like they don't
Ben: know what. I don't know what they want. Yeah. Well, I think for them, it's okay to begin with an intention. Uh, cause the whole thing can really kind of be overwhelming.
Uh, in fact, I I'll tell you a quick story, so I won't name any names, but uh, there was a couple that I spoke with just the last week and nice, nice physician [00:05:00] couple. She's a physician mom. He's a physician, dad. They both have kids and um, Their intention was to kind of get on the stick with their personal finances.
And in fact, this was like the second time that they had tried it a couple of years ago, they had, uh, spoken with their uncle, uncle Bob, actually guy's name was Bob and uncle Bob is a quote unquote wealth manager. Okay. So, uh, I don't know exactly what that means, where he does financial planning or he manages money, but, um, they went to uncle Bob.
Or like, Hey, we want to get our, we want to get our act together when it gets kind of get on track and uncle Bob gave them this organizer, which they described in their words as the Gutenberg Bible. So a thick sheaf of papers with all kinds of blanks on it. And the physician mom was. When I got to the part about college, it asked questions about like, do I want my, where do I want my kid to go to college?
I want him to go in state. Uh, this, this client [00:06:00] was in Virginia. I want to go in state to Virginia school. I want him to go to one of the four states that are here in a budding Virginia. Don't want them to go to the United States. Don't want them to go overseas. And you know, she said, I just got deer in the headlights.
I just froze. You know, my kids are they're tiny, they're toddlers. And I, I can't, I don't even know for sure that they're gonna go to college. I mean, I want them to go to college, but I also want them to grow up and be who they're going to be and not force all these choices on them. So, you know, I think that, I think I'm not sure if I'm totally answering your question, but really it's a.
It can be a little bit overwhelming. And I think it's helpful. I have want someone else to speak with, to, to help you set a goal. And obviously that could be us if it's a financial goal, but you know, it could be a friend or a family member who knows you or, uh, somebody who you look to as a point of influence in your life to kind of help you hammer things out.
Nate: Yeah. If you don't know what you want it, I, I, I found it helpful to find people that are maybe in the same stage of life as you, but for whatever reason they [00:07:00] have thought about. That area of their life more, but at the same time I get all the time. I hear, um, families kind of essentially asking me what their goals should be.
And, and I run away from that question pretty often because I know what it's like for someone to set a goal. For me, that means it's not my. Right. And so rather than that, um, you know, if, if someone doesn't have a goal leaving room for them to develop the goal over time and not needing to rush into this thing, cause this is a lifelong journey of setting goals and, you know, first financial goals.
I mean, you can get started without having a goal. It won't, it may not last long and you may not, it may not be a smart goal, but you'll get there once you, once the wheels start turning right. So what what's, what do you think is important about the goal-setting process? You know, I just kind of spoke to it a little bit.
It's uh, when, when you start, sometimes people have [00:08:00] ideas, sometimes they don't, but the process beginning to end, like what's valuable about that to two families you've served.
Ben: I think it really comes down to just kind of thinking things through thinking about. What you want, uh, why you want it? You know, what, what happens if you, if you don't get it?
Like how important is it? Uh, And I, you know, maybe you've heard of this thing called a dream board or a storyboard. Uh, and it's where, uh, what's a, you want to own a home and you want to own a home on the water and you want a two-story home on the water. In fact, you want a, two-story colonial home on the water and you want a Jack and Jill, uh, bedroom for your, for your kiddos.
And you want a backyard that they can play in and you want there to be grass and not a bunch of streets. And, you know, it's. As I unrolled that, you know, first you want a home then? You want a home in a specific neighborhood, it's got more and more specific. And I'm sure that if you're listening to that, as I [00:09:00] rolled out a little pieces of the goal, you were building yourself a picture in your head and you could kind of see this home coming together.
I mean, uh, one minute it's a house the next minute it says two-story house and then it's on the beach and then there's a yard, right? So you can see this picture, developing your, your mind. And I found that there's a lot of power in mental images. And being able to see something in your mind's eye, because when you can see it in your mind's eye, then when it happens in the real world, you recognize it there.
Um, I do this when I'm thinking about, you know, which team member we need to add next, I think. What they're going to be like, how they're going to speak, what they're going to be good at, whether it'd be like in team settings, you know, how to, how to bring them together. And so when that resume crosses my desk and I see a person like that on paper, I'm like, this is the person I've been looking for this, for this person.
And here they are right in front of me. So. I think, uh, it's the, the envisioning of things is important. And then there's another element of this too, which is, um, you know, [00:10:00] you, you do this for me when I, when I have a goal for, for our work. Um, I tell you what my goal is, you help me flesh it out. And then the great thing you do is you hold me accountable.
You function as an accountability partner. You're like, Hey, Ben, how's this coming along? Or do you need any help with this? Or, or what are you, what are you stuck on? So,
Nate: You know, there's something else to that. Um, the accountability part, um, we do that for each other, do that for families we serve, but something that's important.
Uh, I heard something recently that someone said, Hey, if you're going to ask someone for help, you should make it easy for them to help you. And that for accountability partners, it's like, if you don't, if you're not specific, how can they help you? You know that they don't even know what they're helping you to do.
So I've noticed that the most fruitful conversations I have in goal setting conversations with people, I help them get specific, but it's still, it's still their [00:11:00] specifications. Not mine. Uh, you can have this, you know, I might have the skills to make that measurable, determine if that's attainable from experience, uh, make it relevant to them and keep them accountable, you know, making it time-based.
So it's like, you just have to help yourself with a one piece of that puzzle. And it just so happens to be the first part of smart, which has specific.
Ben: Yeah. And you know, also what you said, you got to want it, it's like try setting a goal for your. Right. And if that's not what that child wants there, you know, it's not going to happen.
And as adults, I mean, we're, we're all, we're all grown up children, you know, if we, if we're, uh, experiencing our world with the, with the wonder in the eyes of a child, You know, w we're we're children inside and there's something about the drive and the curiosity of children that, that makes something totally attainable.
Maybe it's their imagination. And that happens in us as well. So it's like, you just gotta want it, [00:12:00] but even if you want something, you might not know how to get it. And that's where accountability and some coaching comes in and, uh, you know, riffing and bouncing things off for.
Nate: Right. Yeah. Um, I think that's the most ideal way to go through something.
I know when I want something really bad, I don't know how to get it. I get a coach. Um, and you know, that, that, that works for me. Um, but there are. People who still really struggle setting goals. And, and also th there there's the dreamers out there and the, the opportunistic people that really just, that is a drain on them.
So for those people, if they can't find a way to set goals and they don't have any goals, what, what's the alternative, uh, to making progress like, or I'm sorry, what's the alternative, uh, that they have so that they can still make progress.
Ben: Yeah. Well, You know, it's, it's, uh, like that old song, just put one foot in front of the other, right?
So it's, uh, even if you don't have a goal, [00:13:00] uh, even if all you have is an intention or a thought or a dream, you can still make some progress by simply doing something. I mean, you know, if your, if your intention is to be more physically active at that moment, you can walk out the front door and go for it.
Right. So you can, you can do something. In fact, uh, long ago I was really sedentary, uh, you know, generally healthy, but just like not happy. And I was like, uh, oh, I remember what it was. Um, one of my first clients was, this was a surgeon. I wanted to find out what it was like to go through a lawsuit. So, uh, this guy, unfortunately got tagged for malpractice, uh, you know, a patient had a bad outcome.
So I went, uh, and attended his. And I saw the opening arguments, uh, about, you know, why this doctor had done something terrible and they've pushed this guy up to the front of the front of the room. Uh, this gigantic portly gentleman, uh, he was, he brought his drip. And [00:14:00] so, I mean, he just looked like death warmed over and then they marched him and said, this is the plaintiff.
Right. They put him on the stand and I heard them go back and forth about what happened to this guy. And I mean, uh, I'm going to save all the medical terms. Cause I don't know them all, but basically they laid this guy down on his back. They unzipped him from the front. They put all of his guts on the table.
They worked on his spine. They put all the guts back in and then they set him back up and uh, you know, he was in the hospital for like 10 months. I was sitting there thinking, oh my God, oh my God, I need to exercise. I need to, I need to lose some weight. I don't want to be that guy. It was that moment where I decided that I wanted to be healthy.
And that day, I mean, I'm not a, you know, a jock or anything. I don't, I don't know anything about it, but that day I went home and I walked around the block. So, uh, I think it really kind of comes down to, uh, so if you, if you don't have a goal, what you need to do is develop. Right. So, uh, even in my case, like a savings habit, you think a financial advisor would [00:15:00] have excellent savings habits, but I still remember the very first time I started saving and it was in my adult life after my first child was born because I mean, let's face it.
There's not a lot of money at that time, but every day I came home and my habits. Was to reach in my pocket and take the coins, the change that I had and put them in a one gallon coffee, a one pound coffee can, that was in my closet. And I heard that change rattle in the coffee can, it was just really rewarding.
I felt good about it. And I did that every day until I filled out the coffee can, and then I took it down and, uh, opened up a bank account, whether it was my savings account, when that got big enough, I funded my IRA. And then my next goal was to fund both IRAs every year. And then I did that and then set up a 401k and then a defined benefit plan.
And it's like it all built from there. So, uh, you know, I think it's really beginning to establish. A habit, like a habit of exercise, a habit of savings. In fact, there's, there's, what's known as the cornerstone habits. These are the habits to support [00:16:00] all other habits. So, um, saving money is one of the cornerstone habits, cooking your own food is a cornerstone habit, exercising, writing, and reading regularly.
I believe those are the five cornerstone habits. And when you have those, all the other habits can flow from there because if you're. You're constantly learning. If you're riding, you're constantly thinking about and developing yourself. So, uh, if you can begin to build those habits, even if you're just building one, that's gonna move you forward quite a bit.
Nate: Yeah. You know, I've had some success in some areas with just habits as well. In fact, you, like you mentioned, you can build on habits. So let's talk about why not, why not just having habits. Why not just do that? Um, what, what's your thoughts on that? Yeah.
Ben: Yeah. Um, it's kind of a downer here, Nate. I'm gonna have to think about it.
Uh, the reason I have a goal is, is because, you [00:17:00] know, if you just have habits, you don't, you don't have a goal. You might fall short, right? Because if you're really trying to achieve something, like if you're trying to save all the money that you need to send your kid to a private college, then that's a big goal.
And, and you might miss, if you're, you know, you think you're saving enough, but maybe you're. You might miss. And by the same token, let's say for a moment that you're thinking about saving for retirement and you have a habit of saving, you know, everything that you don't spend in a month. Well, you might over.
Which I know is kind of like that surprising you don't hear about Americans overshooting their savings for retirement, but it's entirely possible to overshoot probably about a third of the plans that I see. We run our people that are in the process of overshooting retirement. And, and you're like, oh, well, so I get to retire early.
I get, you know, I get to have extra money. I can spend more, but the folks who overshoot are not, they're not thinking that they're, they're thinking, Hey, I'm not saving enough. So, um, what that does is it causes you to work harder and longer. Then you're really need to, [00:18:00] and that takes time away from family.
That's time that you could spend with your spouse or it's time that you can spend with your kids or, uh, walking around the block. Right. Having a developing other habits. So I think that that's why, why goals are important and if, and if you don't have them that there's, there's something missing,
Nate: right?
Yeah. It. You're right about that. I have examples of both, you know, we, we, we have a client that we serve that, um, I think by the end of their plan, we found out they had tripled the amount of money they needed to retire and they worked like crazy.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Especially if there's an inheritance involved or something like that, it really changes things.
Yeah.
Nate: And, and they truly thought they may not have enough, you know, th the, the, what I see every day, uh, And kind of what I talk to young physicians about is these things are happening. Whether or not you have a goal, a habit, whatever it is, it's coming, retirement college, uh, supporting, uh, maybe supporting your elderly [00:19:00] parents, that's going to happen.
And I don't see physicians say no to those. Right. So whether or not you sh oh, undershoot it or overshoot it, I mean, it's happening. So why not get specific? Yeah. Um, habits can work. You, you can quote unquote, check the box and be successful, but, um, you can do better than that, right? Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.
Ben: Okay.
Did you have the energy? You can, you know, why not? I mean, it's honestly just part of it as it takes a little, a little energy to set. But by the same token, uh, you know, it's just like, goal-setting is a. And amendment. And, you know, even though that's part of my training, when I began to apply it to myself personally, it took me a good four or five years to really kind of get the hang of it and feel good about the goals that I set.
So, um, you know, I set goals that were too long. Like I set them every year on new year's Eve and that's like, okay, so I'm this, this next year. I'm going to [00:20:00] exercise every day for 365. Wrong. So, uh, you know, the time period matters what your, what you're targeting matters. So I think a little practice goes a long way, but maybe folks that just are nervous about setting goals, because they never really have truly set an actual goal.
Nate: That, that brings me to another thought about goals, which is. The goals. So at my house, the way I would describe, uh, how everybody else, other than me feels about goals is that they're just kind of boring, like, right. Okay. We're thinking about retirement it's 40 years away or 30 years away. Um, so, but the, the thing that.
Is more nuanced, uh, about setting goals is kind of the, why you're the everyday? Why? Like, why should I have a goal? Uh, how, why should I have goals in my life rather than just the outcome? [00:21:00] You see what I'm getting at here?
Ben: Um, you lost me a little bit.
Nate: Okay. So, um, you can have goals so that you can accomplish.
But that sounds like a lot of work 30 years from now, but really what goals give you is let's say direction in life, your everyday
Ben: life. Yeah. And then, you know, the other thing about having goals is it's like, oh, there's just so much stuff that comes through. You know, um, you get an invitation to this party.
Somebody wants you to, to write a paper with them. Uh there's uh, there's call no, and somebody wants you to take their call. So there's so many different options on, I think that the, one of the powerful things about having goals is it makes it really easy to say no to the wrong things and say yes to the right things, because you know which direction you want to go and kind of kinda like how you might get there.
And as opportunities arise, you know, what's going to be good for you and whatnot.
Nate: Exactly or investment options, like getting pulled so many different [00:22:00] directions. How do you know what to say yes. To what to say no to what opportunities match, uh, your, your style, you know, and it really comes down to, is this in my plan, is this in my plan to accomplish this goal?
And if it's not, I get to say no, I get to see.
Ben: And I think it also, you know, people have plans for their children. Like my goal is to have my kid, I don't know, work and play well with others. Right. Uh, get along on the playground and you get played eight opportunities, right? So, uh, it might be a party where there's a bunch of kids come or it might be a thing where there's just one child and you got both these invites.
It makes it easy for you to say, the thing that I want for my kid is this or the thing that would work for them as that. And you, you get to choose and you can teach your children goal setting and you can help them make choices about what they want to do as well. And I think teaching goals is kind of fun too, because as you teach it, you get to work with a concept a little bit, particularly when it's with kids.
So
Nate: Ben, should doctors bother to set financial goals? I think the [00:23:00] answer is pretty obvious, but what do you think?
Ben: Yeah, I think it's a, it's a gigantic, Y E. And really, you know, the benefit of it, the benefit of all the work of goals and the thought process that goes into it is it brings, it brings back.
Right. So if it's financial goals, you know how much you have to work. So you know how much you have to say. So you say, so you, you can say no to more work or say yes to more work, depending. Uh, if it's family and family time, you know how much time you want to spend there, if it's your exercise and health, you know how to put your resources.
I think that if you have unlimited resources, You know, if you, if you're just making a ton or if you're super rich, there's, there's nothing to do with goals. They don't need to goals because you don't need a plan, but everybody else, you know, if you have any scarcity in your life, if you want to balance anything and have a balanced life, I think that it's all about goals, knowing what to say no to what to say yes to and feeling good about the direction that you are.
[00:24:00] So Nate, thanks for a, the really interesting conversation today. I know some of it was impromptu, but, uh, I had a good time. Um, I would like to hear what some of our listeners goals are. Uh, in fact, I spoke with a person who is thinking about hiring us the other day for the first time in 20, some odd years.
Uh, person actually came and they said, my first quarter goal is this. My second quarter goal was that. And I was so far, we talked about 20 minutes just about her goal. So it was fantastic, but I do want to hear what your goals are for the new year. So, uh, send us your questions. You can call them in at our answer line.
That's 5 0 3 3 0 8 8 7 3 3. You can send your questions to podcast@physicianfamilydotcomandyoucanseeallourpodcastsatphysicianfamilypodcast.com.
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