Nate Reineke (00:12)
Hello, physician moms and dads. I'm Nate Renneke, Certified Financial Planner and Primary Advisor.
W. Ben Utley (00:18)
And I'm Ben Utley, the service team leader and certified financial planner here at Physician Family. Today we have one more big, beautiful episode for you. We're going to be breaking down the new Trump tax code with Ken Aramita, a CPA from Los Angeles. We're just talking, I'm not sure if there are any oranges left in Orange County, but β Ken practices out of Valencia. He serves physicians that are self-employed all over the United States. Ken, welcome to the show.
Kenneth Eremita (00:46)
Hi, thanks for having me on.
Nate Reineke (00:49)
Ken, we were talking about doing this episode and it sounds like you have sick kids at home. Everyone's got sick kids at home, but the taxes don't sleep. So we're here. Thank you for coming. I'm excited. So how much of the 870 pages did you read? How do you do this?
Kenneth Eremita (00:59)
They do not. Yeah. Thanks for having me.
honestly, I used AI a lot to find the excerpts and then I would look at the actual, the actual bill for those, those expert excerpts to make sure I understood the context. So yeah.
Nate Reineke (01:15)
Uh-huh.
That's good. Yeah.
I don't know anybody that's read the 870 pages. Okay. Well, β you tell me. Yeah. Well, we have β already recorded an episode about this, but Chelsea and I aren't CPAs. So we're excited to talk more detail about this. And, β you know, we tend to kind of scratch the surface of some of these texts.
Kenneth Eremita (01:31)
Yeah, I wish I had the time.
W. Ben Utley (01:33)
I started reading it last night, but I fell asleep.
Kenneth Eremita (01:36)
Hahaha
Nate Reineke (01:53)
β the tax bills in general. β It sounds like today maybe we could talk about β generalities for the average physician, maybe making about $400,000 a year. And then we could also talk about high, know, upper end physicians making 600 plus. So that's what we're going to do today, right?
Kenneth Eremita (02:14)
Yeah, that's right. That sounds good because β yeah, a lot of people in that 400 range will have benefits and people in the 600 range will essentially, it'll be like prior years for them. But yeah, we can dive into it.
Nate Reineke (02:29)
Okay.
Now, I want our listeners to remember being like prior years isn't always a bad thing. Because some of this could be, β you know, maybe it's like prior years, but what you were about to walk into was worse than prior years for your tax return. That's kind of an impression I'm getting. Some of these things, it's like, business as usual. But in reality, it was about to get worse. Your tax bill was about to get higher.
you know, before this tax bill, is that correct? Okay.
Kenneth Eremita (03:02)
That's right, yep,
that's right. lot of these, kind of these tax credits and deductions would have sunset by the end of this year and it would be back to pre 2017 tax cuts.
Nate Reineke (03:11)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (03:12)
So,
thank
Nate Reineke (03:17)
That's right. Okay, good. All right. β So I talked with Chelsea about the salt deduction change. β Let's break that down a little bit more. And I really want to hear about the, you know, $400,000 a year versus 600 plus. So β salt deduction, I did my best Ken to explain salt deduction, but I want to hear from the CPA. What is
it? And then can you break it down with some examples?
Kenneth Eremita (03:43)
Yeah, the start, SALT stands for State and Local Tax, and it's a deduction on state and local tax. So if you're living, like me living in California, and you have to pay real estate taxes and high income taxes to the California state, the government was putting a cap on how much of those taxes you can deduct from your income.
Nate Reineke (04:11)
Mm-hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (04:12)
Before the bill, it was β a $10,000 limit. And after this bill, it's going to be $40,000 that you can essentially write off from your taxable income.
W. Ben Utley (04:24)
Okay, state and local taxes. I know what two of those are, but I want to see if there's any others. So state tax, you know, β I pay my Oregon income tax and I can deduct that against
my federal income and property tax, right? So the tax I pay for having a home, other states have, I don't know, maybe they have car taxes or whatever. Is there another common state or local tax that people pay that they deduct or is that kind of the lion's share of it?
Kenneth Eremita (04:58)
Yeah, that's the lion's share of it. mean, there are, you know, vehicle taxes. β Yeah, that's pretty much it.
W. Ben Utley (05:08)
Just want to make sure I wouldn't miss on anything. this is, you'll have to talk about itemizing versus not itemizing too.
Nate Reineke (05:08)
Okay.
Kenneth Eremita (05:14)
Right.
W. Ben Utley (05:15)
Okay, cool.
Nate Reineke (05:16)
Okay, so what does this mean for a physician making $400,000 a year?
Kenneth Eremita (05:21)
Yeah, so for folks like for example living in California where there there's high income taxes and real estate taxes they would be able to offset up to $40,000 of their income based on those taxes that they pay. So for example if you know our rate here is 9.3 %
W. Ben Utley (05:47)
Well, that's how I feel about the high California income tax rate too.
Nate Reineke (05:47)
Okay
Kenneth Eremita (05:49)
Yeah. Sorry.
Nate Reineke (05:55)
That's okay
W. Ben Utley (05:56)
What was
it you said? Was it like, I think he said 9%. my God. you know, this is ladies and gentlemen, he's got his dogs trained to bark about bad tax news. I love it. That's awesome. β
Nate Reineke (05:58)
You
Kenneth Eremita (06:01)
Yeah
Nate Reineke (06:02)
You
Kenneth Eremita (06:14)
Yeah. Sorry. As
Nate Reineke (06:16)
It's okay.
Kenneth Eremita (06:18)
my
Nate Reineke (06:18)
Yes.
Kenneth Eremita (06:18)
assistant, she's a guard dog protecting the client files out here. Yes. So, yeah. So let's say you made 400,000 and 9 % of that, let's say to be rough, is $36,000 that you can offset of your taxable income.
Nate Reineke (06:24)
Yes.
W. Ben Utley (06:25)
Ha
Kenneth Eremita (06:42)
Let's say you had a house, yeah, let's say you had a house and it was, let's say, I know $100,000 and property tax is 1 1β2%. That's another $1,500 that you can write off.
Nate Reineke (06:42)
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (07:01)
So,
so can if I, I've got $40,000 worth of deductions, does that mean that, β I was earning 400,000. I'm going to get taxed on 360.
Kenneth Eremita (07:11)
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
W. Ben Utley (07:13)
So this, this could cut a tax bill by 10 % is what you're saying for somebody who's making 400K.
Kenneth Eremita (07:20)
It can it can reduce so let's say they're at the combined let's say of 40 % combined tax rate and they take a $40,000 extra deduction I guess that's four times four that's Like $16,000 extra in taxes that they're saving so that's yeah
W. Ben Utley (07:31)
Yeah.
Wow, and that is enough to
buy a latte.
Kenneth Eremita (07:50)
Yeah, indeed. Yeah, you can go out to dinner maybe even and get some drinks.
W. Ben Utley (07:54)
Ken, you can buy yourself a whole new dog for that. Nice. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (08:02)
Okay,
so it sounds like a big savings, but β obviously we haven't touched on the itemizing. So β go into that a little bit. β Like what does it mean for someone maybe who in the past wasn't able to itemize and what does it mean to itemize?
W. Ben Utley (08:10)
Yeah.
Let's start with an explanation of the standard deduction for married filing jointly. Let's start there.
Kenneth Eremita (08:21)
Yeah.
Okay, yeah, so the standard deduction for folks who are married filing joint means that whatever, let's say you disregard your state and local income tax and mortgage interest and charitable contributions and things like that, then you can take, you could still take what's called a standard deduction. And for married couples, it's gonna be around 30,000. They're bumping it up a little bit to like,
31, 32,000. Not very significant, but the salt, I guess if you're itemizing it, that's where you're gonna have more of the savings.
W. Ben Utley (09:04)
Okay.
Nate Reineke (09:07)
Mm-hmm.
So imagine before β you make $400,000 a year, you don't have $30,000 of deductions. Like you haven't paid enough or the salt cap was lower and you you haven't given enough to charity. So you can't itemize your deductions. You can't write everything off like everyone likes to talk about.
W. Ben Utley (09:30)
Or maybe,
maybe your house is paid off. You don't have the mortgage interest. Cause I think that's probably what most doctors are deducting. Yeah.
Kenneth Eremita (09:34)
Exactly.
Nate Reineke (09:36)
Uh-huh.
And so now, β let's say you can write off more than 30,000. β And so anything above 30,000 is what improves your tax β return. So in this case, if someone can now write off more of their, take a bigger SALT deduction, maybe it brings their write-offs or their deductions to 40,000 rather than 30. So it's not like β they actually get to
Kenneth Eremita (09:50)
Right.
Right. Yep.
Nate Reineke (10:05)
write off an extra 40 it's more like they get to write off an extra 10. Okay.
W. Ben Utley (10:06)
Yeah.
Kenneth Eremita (10:10)
Yeah, that's
right. So it's the greater, it's whatever's the greater, β the greater of the standard deduction or the itemized deductions. And Ben, you touched on that. Typically in the past, β people would be itemizing if they had mortgage interest, a high amount of mortgage interest, because the taxes were capped at $10,000, right? So you needed to have some sort of like,
W. Ben Utley (10:32)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (10:37)
Yeah.
Kenneth Eremita (10:40)
you know, 20,000 or more in mortgage interest to even think about itemizing. Now, β with the real estate, the property tax and the income tax alone, you can get into the itemizations.
Nate Reineke (10:45)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (10:55)
Okay.
Nate Reineke (10:56)
fast.
Yeah. Okay. Now what's different about this for a family physician family maybe making 600 plus.
Kenneth Eremita (11:04)
Yeah, so unfortunately for them, there is a phase out of that $40,000. It phases back down to what we had in the prior years of $10,000 on that salt cap. So that phase out takes place between 400 and 500,000 of income. So once you exceed 500,000 of income, your salt cap goes down to $10,000.
W. Ben Utley (11:30)
Wow.
Kenneth Eremita (11:33)
So yeah, these $600,000 earners, it's basically business as usual from the last few years of taxes.
W. Ben Utley (11:40)
So
if I'm that, that GI doc who married to the nephrologist and I'm making, you know, $1.2 million, this is like, kind of, what Nate said, a big fat nothing burger. Yeah. Nothing burger. β
Nate Reineke (11:52)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.
Kenneth Eremita (11:54)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (11:57)
Okay. β Next kind of perplexing thing that I think a lot of people hear this, they don't know exactly what it means, is QBI deductions. So β can we start real quick by just talking about what is a QBI deduction? Who would... Yeah, that's right.
W. Ben Utley (12:13)
Well, what's QBI? Let's start with that. It sounds like a bad video game.
Kenneth Eremita (12:16)
Yeah.
Yeah. So it stands for qualified business income and that's for self-employed folks with a sole proprietor or β an S-corp. And so what that did is it would take a deduction against your business income. Let's say you had business income from self-employment or
your S-corp of $100,000, it would take 20 % of that off. So you would have $80,000 of taxable income from that business. That's essentially how it works.
Nate Reineke (12:53)
Mm-hmm. So if I'm a doctor
W. Ben Utley (12:54)
Hmm.
Nate Reineke (12:56)
and I actually don't practice medicine, I run a lemonade stand and I made a hundred bucks and that was all my income, but I also had this in an S corp, And essentially the government's saying you don't have to pay taxes on 20 bucks of your hundred bucks. That's about right. Okay. So this is like QBI, all these. I'm like, let's do lemonade stand talk here. Okay. So that makes sense. What's changed about
W. Ben Utley (13:18)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (13:23)
β QBI that the 20 % was last year right or up to this point before the bill. So what's changed?
Kenneth Eremita (13:30)
Yeah,
so it's still 20%, but what they're doing is they're increasing the phase out. And so what they said, and this is how it was before the bill and after the bill, if you make too much money, then you don't get to use this deduction, basically is what they're saying. That phase out used to happen over the span of 100,000. So it was around 380 to 480, that deduction would phase out to 0%.
Nate Reineke (13:48)
Hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (13:59)
but they're expanding that phase out range to $150,000 and they're increasing the threshold to around 400,000. So between 400,000 and 550,000 is the phase out range for this QBI. If you're making
W. Ben Utley (14:16)
Okay.
Kenneth Eremita (14:19)
400,000, then you take that 20 % deduction. If you make 550,000, you can't take anything. It's down to 0%.
W. Ben Utley (14:29)
So Ken, I want to, I want to talk about the Q in QBI for a minute. I remember when we had Trump won and this QBI deduction came out. β It seemed like the qualified part of there's something about like
They basically cut up doctors, accountants, attorneys, and what we generally consider professionals. Is that still the case? Can you kind of break that down for docs? as I'm hearing this, like, I don't know if I could take this or not.
Kenneth Eremita (14:57)
Yeah, so I think what you're referring to is what's called the SSTBs, specified service. β Yeah, so it, SSTBs. Yeah, so that's basically what that means is an SSTB is called a specified service trader business.
W. Ben Utley (15:02)
Wait a minute, wait a minute. I don't sleep around. I'm not getting SSTDs. Super STDs, that's terrifying. Your doc should be barking right now. That's all I can say.
Nate Reineke (15:13)
Mm-hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (15:26)
Basically what that means is if your business relies on your credential or your
I guess your expertise as a professional, then you are an SSTB. And basically this QBI deduction goes away once you, β it phases out and goes away completely with these thresholds. But if you were an SSTB, let's say you're, β you run a construction business, β a restaurant or something else like that, that doesn't require a credential to provide the service or the goods.
then there's an alternate calculation once you exceed that threshold, that 550k threshold.
W. Ben Utley (16:06)
The docs can still get this QBI deduction then, is that correct?
Kenneth Eremita (16:10)
No, no, because they are SSTVs. They have a credential that through which they earn their income through. So as a physician, you know, they do that. I was looking into it because, you know, some physicians dabble in like med spas and stuff, but there is a bit of a gray area. And if it was just like, you know, you had your physician level work and then you had non-physician level work, then you
W. Ben Utley (16:28)
Yeah.
Kenneth Eremita (16:39)
there's this idea of maybe you split it into two entities so that the non, yeah.
W. Ben Utley (16:43)
So, so gimme, gimme
a use case for a physician. Like why, why should doctors care about QBI at all? What's a, what's a case that we might typically see where docs are β able to take this QBI deduction.
Kenneth Eremita (16:58)
Yeah, so the case is someone making under $550,000. The person making $400,000 gets the complete deduction, and someone in that range will get a partial deduction. Someone making $600,000, there's pretty much no case where they could, through their physician-level work, take that deduction, that QBI.
W. Ben Utley (17:23)
But if I'm a
self-employed psychiatrist and I'm making $350,000, does that mean that there's 70 grand that I'm not going to get taxed on federally?
Kenneth Eremita (17:32)
β Sorry, the math. Yeah, I think if that's 20 % yeah.
W. Ben Utley (17:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, it is. Okay. Okay.
Kenneth Eremita (17:39)
Right, that's correct.
Nate Reineke (17:39)
Mm-hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (17:41)
And that's another thing I think some people confuse is they think they have to be an S-Corp to take the QBI, but you don't. You can be a sole proprietor as well.
W. Ben Utley (17:51)
So basically it applies to pass throughs.
Kenneth Eremita (17:54)
Yeah, it applies to pass-throughs.
W. Ben Utley (17:56)
So I want to stop right here for just a second, because pass-through is something we understand. I'm not sure all our listeners get this. So a pass-through is a, it is a, an S corporation. A pass-through can be a sole proprietor. So that's just basically you, not incorporated. So you practicing, I guess it's also partnerships, right?
Kenneth Eremita (18:19)
Yeah, it's it's gonna be an entity some sort of entity that is taxed as either an S corp or a partnership
W. Ben Utley (18:25)
Yeah. So it's a business that's definitely not a C Corp is passed through. And, this is kind of the opposite of Vegas, know, with Vegas, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, but what happens on an S Corp goes right through. So you're going to pick up all that income and the, the character of that income is going to come right through on your 10 40. So if you're getting dividends in your corporation, they're going to be taxes dividends on your 10 40.
Yeah, okay. I'm explainer in chief today.
Kenneth Eremita (18:53)
Yeah,
Nate Reineke (18:54)
you
Kenneth Eremita (18:54)
actually that brought up something else, if I can for a second, talk about going back to the SALT. In earlier drafts of the bill, they were talking about removing the PTE deduction, but in this final bill, they did not. yeah, people will still be able to, people earning more than $600,000 should still elect the PTE.
W. Ben Utley (19:10)
Mm-hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (19:23)
in their state if that's something they've been doing.
W. Ben Utley (19:26)
Okay, so I'm going to explain this too. So β I'm in a high income state, Oregon, and when they passed this salt limitation, it was like, β now I can't deduct my Oregon income tax anymore. So β New York did this, β Oregon followed suit. are quite a few states that do this now. And basically what it allows you to do is pay your business income, the tax on your business income.
That's goes to your state. your state, let say if I can say, your state income tax that's, that's due on your business income, you pay with business money and you deduct that from the profits of your business. And as a result, when these profits are distributed from your business as an S corp, there's less of them. And effectively you're getting the state income tax deduction without limit.
because you paid it in your inside your, your corporation, your sole proprietorship, your partnership. So that's, β you know, like I have a CPA who does this for me and it feels like the devil's in the details, but, β you know, she, kind of makes it magically happen. β but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great thing. And I think it might be, β might be a little tax break that people could look into with your help, depending on what state they're in.
Nate Reineke (20:47)
Mm-hmm.
Kenneth Eremita (20:48)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. allows them to space.
W. Ben Utley (20:49)
Yeah, I thought they'd close that
loophole, but this tells you how pro-business the one big beautiful bill really is.
Kenneth Eremita (20:56)
Yeah, yeah, it's really nice that they got to preserve that.
Nate Reineke (21:01)
Okay, let's move on to some things that are just going away. So I think you had told us there's some things that are just flat out going away. What are those things?
Kenneth Eremita (21:12)
yeah, so the clean energy and energy efficiency credits for your home, β those are gonna go away. So things like your ability to buy an EV that qualified for this credit, that's gonna go away in September. And then things like if you wanted to get a solar system for your house, that's gonna go away in December. So if you're gonna make those purchases, yeah.
W. Ben Utley (21:28)
Wow. β
Kenneth Eremita (21:40)
do that before those deadlines.
Nate Reineke (21:43)
You may not know this, Ken. It's okay if you don't. I heard that there's some, there's different rules for some of this residential energy. Some of it is based on when you purchase it and some of it is based on when you install it. Do you know about that?
Kenneth Eremita (21:58)
I can get back to you on that one. I'm not as familiar with, yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:02)
Okay. I don't hear too many people ask
about it. I mean, you're in California, so this is a big deal. But I heard some, some anyways, we'll come back to that different time, but it was interesting. It's like, β basically if you want to do this, you know, and you can email us and I'll look it up, but interesting that that's going away.
Kenneth Eremita (22:24)
Yeah. Yeah. It probably means that has to be placed into service. Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (22:29)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:29)
Yes. Yeah.
Kenneth Eremita (22:31)
So that's, yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:32)
Okay. Okay. β What are some of the other changes that specifically impact families? Like, can you talk about the estate tax?
Kenneth Eremita (22:41)
β
yeah. Yeah. So that's that's a really big one. β that was going to sunset. the previous law had this exemption and it would have been somewhere in the mid twenties, β 20 million, 26 million ish that could be passed down to your heirs when you die tax free. β but it was going to sunset and go back down to around 13.6 million.
at end of this year, β this bill basically kept it going and made it permanent and then also increased the limits. So now a couple β can pass on $30 million tax free to their heirs. So yeah.
Nate Reineke (23:12)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (23:32)
Wow. So I'm going to
Nate Reineke (23:33)
Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (23:34)
venture a guess that precisely zero of our listeners have $30 million to pass down. And, uh, you know, if you're driving along, you're like, yeah, changing lanes, ignoring this part of the talk, but, but here's, here's where you need to tune in. Okay. That's a federal break, but your state probably still has a state death tax or a state inheritance tax or a state estate tax. And here in Oregon.
Kenneth Eremita (23:41)
Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (24:02)
It's a million bucks. So, you know, if you, if you're that client who's got $10 million, then that other 9 million is going to be taxed probably on the second death, depending on whether or not you have portability for your, your credit in your state. But, β this is, I don't know how many states don't levy, β an inheritance or a death tax, but, β many, many states do. And, β you know, that that's like.
You still need a state planning to be able to manage that. This is where AB trusts are still useful and that kind of thing. So, β you still need to pay attention to this, even if you are not a, β what is it? A tri-deca millionaire. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (24:42)
Yeah. And
estate planning is still important too. mean, β Ken, you said the word permanent and that β is a funny word with the tax bills. It's permanent unless something changes, right? Unless we have another act of Congress. Yeah. it's probably a good thing, kind of a... Ben, that's when you say nothing burger. β Nothing burger for most physicians, but the state tax is important. So...
Kenneth Eremita (24:55)
Yeah, another administration. Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (25:06)
Pig burger!
Kenneth Eremita (25:08)
You
Nate Reineke (25:13)
All right. β What about β physicians or doctors with kids? I know there's some changes with college accounts, things like that. So let's get into that for a minute.
Kenneth Eremita (25:24)
Yeah, yeah, so the 529s, think you guys, you and Chelsea talked about it in your last podcast, and it just increased the flexibility of what you can use those funds for. β So like for private school education and stuff that's not college, even credentialing, like becoming a CPA like me, β could use those funds for something like that. β Yeah, so it gives a little more flexibility.
Nate Reineke (25:37)
Mm-hmm.
That's cool.
Kenneth Eremita (25:53)
And then that's right.
Nate Reineke (25:53)
There's some Trump account stuff, which
by the way, just for our listeners, Chelsea messaged me β yesterday evening and said we made a minor mistake on the Trump accounts in our last episode. So we're gonna correct it, but not today, because this is Ken's episode.
W. Ben Utley (26:03)
Yeah, okay.
Kenneth Eremita (26:11)
Okay. Yeah, so basically what they're doing is they're creating an account where β you can do trades and not realize the gains in that year, not until β the money is actually pulled out of the funds when the child is an adult, basically. And so it's better than an UTMA kind of account because...
then you don't have to have those kiddie tax implications or even file a tax situations where you have to file a tax return for your child because all these various thresholds are exceeded. So it just makes it a little more easy, β but these Trump accounts won't be, β I don't think they're available until next year. yeah.
Nate Reineke (27:02)
Yeah, we
W. Ben Utley (27:03)
So, you.
Nate Reineke (27:03)
did talk about Trump accounts quite a bit. mean, the way I look at them is that they're better than a UTMA, which a UTMA is a minor account, but not nearly as good as a 529. And in most cases, I don't really see physicians asking about UTMAs. We did get someone that asked about them a few days ago, but they're few and far between because it's so expensive to send your kids to college.
There's usually no other saving going on. β
But if it's really unique or for some odd reason you have way too much money for college and you still want to give your kids more money, I guess the Trump account is, you know, you could use it. But it's interesting, it's different, so we're talking about it. Anything else, So we got 529s, we got the estate tax, we got the Trump accounts. β What's like the big picture here?
What's the big takeaway?
Kenneth Eremita (28:02)
Yeah, so big picture. It seems like there are a lot of cuts, but there's not much to offset those cuts. And so that means that it appears as though the deficits are going to grow with the government. And at some point with the way things are going, it appears as though future generations are going to have to hopefully cover those deficits. β
Nate Reineke (28:20)
Mm.
Kenneth Eremita (28:31)
But that's all I can really speak on. β And as far as the tax system, it was already β geared towards those who are investors and inheritors. And it is just further optimized towards those folks, people with investment income over earned income.
Nate Reineke (28:50)
So becoming an investor is what I'm hearing. Yeah, that's right. Okay, Ben, anything else to add?
Kenneth Eremita (28:51)
make that of what you will. Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (28:59)
Nope. Okay. If I take us out. Well, you know, one of the things we like to help people do here is turn a good income into a great life. Part of that is by becoming an investor. And so you've already seen here today that the tax code is stacked in your favor if you're an investor. So, β if the investing and taxes is something that you are a little concerned about, maybe it's not your forte and you're looking for a financial advisor, visit physicianfamily.com to apply for an interview with us.
Nate Reineke (29:00)
Yeah, let's do it.
W. Ben Utley (29:27)
If you're not ready to take that step, send your questions to us. It's podcast at physicianfamily.com. And in the meantime, remember you're not just making a living, you're making a life.
