Nate Reineke (00:13)
Hello physician moms and dads. I'm Nate Renneke, Certified Financial Planner and Primary Advisor.
Chelsea Jones (00:20)
And I am Chelsea Jones, also a certified financial planner and primary advisor here at Physician Family.
Nate Reineke (00:27)
Chelsea, we were gonna talk about retirement withdrawals a few weeks ago, but then ⁓ the big tax bill came out, the one big beautiful bill, so we ⁓ pivoted, but we're circling back, because you get some of these questions from retired docs ⁓ or people on the cusp of retirement. So thought it would be good to get some of the big questions answered. ⁓ So for our listeners, we don't.
Chelsea Jones (00:32)
and
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (00:55)
We didn't get these specific questions, but we get some version of these questions all the time. And we used to do this a lot. We're thinking about bringing it back where we take one topic and sort of go a little deeper than just one question on an episode. So if you're wondering about retirement withdrawals, here are kind of the top few questions that we get asked.
All right, ready Chelsea? Okay,
Chelsea Jones (01:19)
Ready.
Nate Reineke (01:20)
before I ask you the first question, I wanna set the stage just a little bit. ⁓ Imagine for our listeners, if you're not on the cusp of retirement, when you get there, basically you have this big pile of money, except the problem is it's not a big pile of money. It's more like four piles of money. Hopefully they're all pretty big, but they're in different buckets. All right, we call them buckets, tax buckets.
So Chelsea, before we get to the first question, because it will matter for the first one, can you sort of just describe the buckets?
Chelsea Jones (01:53)
Yeah. So the first bucket that's probably the most common is going to be your tax deferred bucket, which is, you know, that's your 401ks, that's your rollover IRAs, 403Bs,
Nate Reineke (02:00)
Mm.
Chelsea Jones (02:08)
pension plans, if you have a lump sum you can take out of a pension or something, that's going to be tax deferred. So the contributions that you make to those accounts, you got a tax break on it. So that means that all of the dollars within those accounts are most likely, you haven't paid any taxes on any of those dollars. So anytime that you make a distribution, it's going to be completely taxable as regular income.
Nate Reineke (02:35)
Yes.
Chelsea Jones (02:37)
Second bucket is going to be a Roth account. So a Roth account is an account that you have contributed to with post-tax dollars. So you've already paid taxes on the contributions. If it's in a Roth account, it grows tax-free. And when you take the money out in retirement, there are no taxes owed. So that has tax-free growth. Roth, you paid the taxes upfront, no taxes later. The tax deferred, you...
save the taxes upfront to pay them later, ideally when you're at a lower tax bracket. The third bucket is gonna be your taxable bucket. So that's just a regular old brokerage account. So tax deferred and Roth accounts, those are going to be specifically for retirement, like as defined in our tax code.
Nate Reineke (03:21)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (03:33)
The taxable accounts are just a regular brokerage account. Anyone can open it up. There's no contribution limits. There's no income limits. ⁓ But you fund it with after-tax dollars, and then the gains are taxed at capital gains rates when you take them out in retirement.
Nate Reineke (03:52)
Okay, so pre-tax dollars is good while you're working, but you pay more taxes when you get to retirement. I shouldn't say more, you pay taxes, income taxes when you get to retirement. Still really beneficial to use because you're at a high tax rate now and ideally, theoretically, you'd be at a lower tax rate when you retire because you're not taking as much money out of these accounts. ⁓
Chelsea Jones (04:02)
You just paid the taxes. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (04:19)
The middle path is the taxable account. It's the most expensive to fund because you have to pay with ⁓ post-tax dollars and then later you pay taxes again at capital gains rates. But in retirement, it gives a lot of flexibility. So that's the benefit. That's why you do it. And then Roth, ⁓ very, very good for most people, for physicians who are in especially earning a lot. ⁓ It's not as beneficial as the
Chelsea Jones (04:35)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (04:48)
But once the money is in there and you get to retirement, it's fantastic because all there's no taxes on the growth. Okay. So this runs into something we hear about all the time, or I guess we do for families that we serve, which is Roth conversions. Okay, so.
Chelsea Jones (04:49)
Cancel it.
and
That's right.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (05:11)
The question is, when should I begin proactive backdoor Roth conversions? So obviously, I think we should start with ⁓ what that is.
Chelsea Jones (05:22)
Yep. So the phrase proactive backdoor Roth conversions, I think is a combination of the, in my mind, are two distinct times you would do a Roth conversion. So there's the backdoor Roth specifically is going to be for while you're working. Right. So once the tax
Nate Reineke (05:42)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (05:47)
Deferred bucket is full for physicians because that's the best place to put money now when you're a high earner. Once you maxed out your 401k, the next best place in your HSA, the next best place to put money is the back door Roth. You don't get the immediate tax break, ⁓ but you also make too much to deduct the IRA contribution. ⁓ And so you don't have a choice. Any IRA contributions you make if you make more than, you know, I think it's like $150,000, you can't
deduct traditional IRA contributions. So you're not getting the tax break on your IRA contributions in most cases as a physician. But what you can do is this Roth conversion, which takes this post-tax contribution in the IRA and moves it into the Roth IRA where it can grow tax-free. So if it were to stay in the traditional IRA, any growth would be taxable.
Nate Reineke (06:39)
Yes. Yep, so.
Right.
Chelsea Jones (06:46)
That's the
important part of getting it into the Roth is for the tax free growth.
Nate Reineke (06:50)
Yeah, so the only reason to do this would be to do the conversion. So we still get questions all the time about backdoor Roths, or really, we still get families that just don't really understand what they are. So you put it into this traditional IRA, but you're not getting the break, the tax break. So why even do it so that you can roll into the Roth and you can't contribute directly to the Roth because you make too much money to. Okay, so that's one version of Roth conversions. There's a different version kind of
Chelsea Jones (07:02)
Mm-hmm.
Thanks.
Exactly.
Nate Reineke (07:19)
for retirees.
Chelsea Jones (07:21)
Mm hmm. Yeah. So that's what we typically call proactive Roth conversion. And we call it proactive because ⁓ when you're retired, usually if you have money in a 401k or 403b, you'll roll it into an IRA when you retire. ⁓ Just so you can have more control over it, you know, can consolidate everything into one place. It's easier to keep track of, especially if you have multiple workplace plans.
Nate Reineke (07:43)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (07:51)
But what proactive Roth conversions are for retirees is you're intentionally converting money from your regular IRA or your rollover IRA. You're converting a portion of that to Roth intentionally paying the taxes on it because like we talked about before, this is a tax deferred account. You made these contributions ⁓ before tax. So anytime
distribution comes out of that tax deferred account, it's going to be taxable. So you're intentionally paying those taxes so that the money, the resulting distribution, can go into your Roth IRA. You invest it in the Roth IRA and from there it can be, it can grow tax free.
Nate Reineke (08:36)
Yeah, I think people
miss this mainly because when they think about when they're retiring, they think ⁓ that they're in a spending mode, like they're going to start spending this money. But it's really important to know, especially for physicians who are retiring early, this money is going to be invested for decades. It's going to continue to be invested. So if you can get over to the Roth and give it 20 years to grow, it's still going to be ⁓ growing in the tax deferred account.
Chelsea Jones (08:45)
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (09:04)
and that's creating a bigger tax bill. So if you can do it now or do a portion and do it every year, then you can get more money into the Roth. so how do you do this strategically? Because you're intentionally paying taxes, but like how much do you convert?
Chelsea Jones (09:19)
Mm-hmm.
It depends on, that's gonna be a case by case basis. But at a high level, we would typically fill up a certain tax bracket. So if your regular spending, if you're taking out $10,000 a month, that puts you in, I don't know, maybe the 20 % effective rate, filling up a portion of maybe the 22 % bracket. You can intentionally.
Nate Reineke (09:27)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (09:49)
convert enough to fill up to the top of the 22 % bracket, but not go into the 24. So that way you're keeping the reins on your tax bill while also getting money into the Roth to get that tax free growth.
Nate Reineke (10:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
So this is the whole thing, right? Let's without getting into what the tax brackets are or anything. Let's imagine you get to use your total spend, healthcare, travel, monthly expenditures gets up to a point where you're in the 20 22 % tax bracket. And technically, you could spend another, let's just say $20,000.
you could spend another $20,000 and stay in that 22 % tax bracket or the 24 whatever you choose. But let's say 22 % tax bracket, but you don't need to spend it. You're in December. And you just don't you have no reason to spend it. So what you do is you go and Chelsea you go in with people and you say, okay, you have $20,000 left. Let's convert that 20,000 since you're still going to be paying this low tax in this low tax bracket 22%. Let's get 20,000 from
Chelsea Jones (10:35)
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (10:58)
your traditional IRA or your 401k or whatever it is and move it into your Roth converted over. Right? Okay. So it is proactive. I mean, this is like opportunistic ⁓ tax move.
Chelsea Jones (11:01)
Yep.
proactive. Yeah.
Yeah, and there's a, like a set of time where this is most beneficial. It's after retirement, but before you hit RMD age, because once you hit 70, whatever, it's, it's a range now, depending on when you were born to be RMD age ranges. But once you hit RMD age, money is going to be coming out of that IRA, whether you like it or not. And so that's another reason to do these proactive Roth conversions, because it's moving money into that Roth IRA bucket. And it would
Nate Reineke (11:22)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (11:45)
lower the amount of your RMD once you hit RMD age. So if you're able to take out, you know, enough to live off of, but once your RMD kicks in, you have to take out substantially more than what it takes to live and pay those taxes. You can do a lot of good with proactive Roth conversions to mitigate all effects.
Nate Reineke (11:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Right. Because
if you have too much money in there, they make you, know, the IRS makes you take out a big distribution. ⁓ I guess what you would need to do is reinvest in a taxable account, but you're reinvesting it. So you paid, you're paying taxes on it, then you're going to invest it to eventually pay taxes on it again. So do the best you can, convert as much as you can before that.
Chelsea Jones (12:30)
and
Nate Reineke (12:33)
Okay, anything else? I think that's about it.
Chelsea Jones (12:36)
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers it for the rough conversions.
Nate Reineke (12:40)
Okay, so we actually answered, we got this question and answered it on the last episode, but I think just for ⁓ to be complete here, this is a big question for retirement withdrawals, which is, ⁓ which is the best account to withdraw from first?
Chelsea Jones (12:59)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And what I said last time was the general rule of taxable accounts first, then your tax deferred accounts and leave the Roth accounts for last. Let them grow tax free as long as they possibly can. But now that we have that first question, we can probably see how it could be a mixture of like you're not just taking out taxable money. If you do proactive Roth conversion, you would also be taking tax deferred money.
Nate Reineke (13:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Chelsea Jones (13:28)
pulling it out of that tax deferred bucket, paying some taxes and putting it in the tax free bucket. So it all ties together and it can be complex depending on the strategy. But if it comes down to just spending and we're kind of ignoring the conversion part for a second, the taxable account is the one to draw from first. There's no early withdrawal penalty for that. And so if you happen to retire before 60, 59 and a half,
Nate Reineke (13:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Chelsea Jones (13:58)
⁓ then you're not going to get dinged for taking money out of your retirement fund if it's coming out of the taxable account. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (14:08)
Yeah, I, you know, I kind of take issue with this topic out there and the Internet. ⁓ I keep hearing people say, ⁓ the penalty is not that big of a deal. Like, what? OK, I guess I guess you can give more money to the IRS. But with careful planning and a taxable account, basically it gives you a ton of flexibility. You can retire early, which everybody says they want.
Chelsea Jones (14:16)
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (14:38)
⁓ So why not fill up a taxable account? mean, of course, you're going to fill up your pre-tax accounts. But, ⁓
Chelsea Jones (14:45)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (14:45)
you know, the only reason I could I could kind of shrug my shoulders and say, who cares so much about the penalty? Don't worry about it too much. Is if you get to the end of the road and you could retire early, you have enough to retire early, but you're going to have to pay some penalties to do it. Well, that would probably be worth it because you're buying a couple of years of retirement, maybe.
Chelsea Jones (15:02)
And.
Nate Reineke (15:07)
and the result is some penalties. But with careful planning and filling up a taxable account, ⁓ you wouldn't need to do that. You wouldn't need to just give more money to the IRS. You've already given them enough your entire career. ⁓ Fill up a taxable account.
If you have extra money and your plan doesn't require it, do it anyways so that it buys you some flexibility. ⁓ If you don't have extra money and your plan's
going along fine, you know you're going to retire at 64 years old, it's okay. You don't have to have a big fat taxable account, but taxable accounts buy you flexibility because they don't have these early withdrawal penalties and therefore usually they go first.
Chelsea Jones (15:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and another unique thing about taxable accounts is
the income that you realize on these taxable accounts that it's not regular earned income, it's investment income. And so if you don't have any earned income and you're taking money out of a taxable account, your capital gains rate is based on your earned income rate. You know, there's three brackets. It's either 0, 15 or 20 in the current tax law. And so
Nate Reineke (16:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (16:25)
If you're taking money out of, your IRA to live off of, then you're paying more than you would out of a taxable account because you could potentially be pushed down into a very low capital gains rate, which, again, going back to the Roth conversions also opens up basically the entire tax bracket to fill up for the proactive Roth conversions.
Nate Reineke (16:35)
Right.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, the first few years of retirement for physicians, this is a lot of tax money to be saved. ⁓ And physicians tend to be, know, especially W-2 physicians, it can be frustrating on how little tax ⁓ strategy you can use. Like you're filling up your accounts at work, you're doing the best you can, but you still feel like you're paying a ton in taxes. Account structure and doing this right when you actually reach retirement age.
Chelsea Jones (17:14)
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (17:20)
This is your time to shine with taxes. Don't give it away in penalties. And do some planning. I mean, with some careful planning, you could save a boatload of taxes. So you should.
Chelsea Jones (17:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
You should.
Nate Reineke (17:34)
Okay, next question is part of my retirement goals is to give money to charity. What approaches should I think about? It's interesting. I got this one actually yesterday writing a new plan for family that's going to retire pretty early and they wanted to continue to give to their local church ⁓ and we put it in the plan and this is
Chelsea Jones (17:44)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Nate Reineke (18:02)
this is part of that. what should people do if they have the they want they know they want to give money to charity so they want to plan for it.
Chelsea Jones (18:13)
Yeah, you get the most. ⁓
I guess you have the most options with this if you have a taxable account. Because the most I think frequently used charitable distribution option is gifting appreciated securities. And you could either do that just as straight transferring securities to your charity or your church if they're able to receive those. ⁓ Or you can do it through a donor advised fund. So ⁓
Nate Reineke (18:22)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Which, real quick,
a ⁓ lot of places that I hear physicians that really give money, ⁓ they can't just take securities. Some of them can. Some families are serving, they have these big organizations they're giving money to and they've got this all figured out. You can just give them the securities. many smaller organizations don't have the ability just to accept your highly appreciated
Chelsea Jones (18:53)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Right. Yeah, that's where the that's where the donor advised fund comes in. ⁓ And the donor advised fund is good for people who like who need to bunch their contributions into one year. So say you ⁓ you typically give, I don't know, maybe ten thousand a year, but you have to give at least. I don't know, I'm making these numbers up, but you have to give at least fifty thousand to get an actual tax break on your tax return.
Nate Reineke (19:13)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Right.
Chelsea Jones (19:42)
⁓ So this donor advice fund lets you make a contribution in one year and then actually spread out the giving a little bit. It's a completed gift. And so it's technically not yours anymore, but the donor advice fund allows you to have a say in where that money goes and when it goes there. So donor advice funds are good for lumping contributions into one tax year. So that way you can get the maximum deduction.
Nate Reineke (19:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Chelsea Jones (20:11)
and then redirecting them.
Nate Reineke (20:13)
Yeah, so this is ⁓ when you're taking deductions, you know, you're retired, you got a paid off house, you probably don't have ⁓ mortgage interest anymore. It's hard to do anything more than the standard deduction. But if you can put $100,000 into this account right now, then you can get the deductions moving forward. And then you use that account to achieve your giving goals.
Chelsea Jones (20:25)
and
Yeah.
Mm
hmm.
Nate Reineke (20:42)
At
least in the case that the family I was talking to yesterday, we were talking about maybe giving $1,500 a month or $1,200 a month. And they're going to have a ton of money in a taxable account because they want to retire at 55. So they're going to have to have a big taxable account. They already do at age 36. So this is a perfect strategy for them. Probably the money they have in there right now at 36 years old is the money that they will put in a donor advice fund when they're 55.
Chelsea Jones (20:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (21:13)
right,
because these are going to be the most appreciated securities. It's going to be another 20 years from now. And as you have a tiny, tiny little basis, and they'll avoid having to pay a ton of capital gains on that while accomplishing their goal.
Chelsea Jones (21:24)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Yeah, because I did want to, I don't think we explicitly explained this. The whole reason you would get depreciated securities is so that you didn't have to pay those gains, the capital gains ⁓ taxes on the gain. ⁓
Nate Reineke (21:36)
That's right. Yeah.
Now I want to point something out. This is ⁓ less charitable of me to point it out. But so far ⁓ this is a good strategy to save in taxes, but you have to give away money to do it. Right. And a lot of times we want to we want these great tax loopholes that somehow like I don't give away any money or I don't spend any money. This is like, you know, it's great to get mortgage interest deduction. But at the end of the day, you're paying interest to get the deduction.
Chelsea Jones (22:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:11)
You
know, a lot of people will not pay off their mortgage because they get a tax break. Well, does that so you don't pay, you know, 35 % on your mortgage on the taxes for the money put towards the interest, but you still had to pay $20,000 in interest to get it. So this is mainly a goal driven tax break. If you already know you're going to be kind of charitably minded, then you would take the strategy.
Chelsea Jones (22:26)
Yeah.
this.
Mm hmm.
Yeah. And another another gifting strategy I can touch on here. This is for people who are well into retirement. You have to be at least 70 and a half to do this, but you can make qualified charitable distributions. So this is basically ⁓ you use it to satisfy all or part of your RMD, your required minimum distribution for that year. But instead of it being taxable income to you, it's not taxed because you're
giving it away. There is a limit. You can only do this for up to $100,000 a year per person. And there's a little bit of confusion because like I said earlier, R &D ages differ based on your year of birth. But for these qualified charitable distributions, it's just 70 and 1.5. As long as you're 70 and 1.5, you can do these.
Nate Reineke (23:26)
Mm. Okay.
Okay.
Chelsea Jones (23:31)
Yeah, guess that role just didn't catch up with the secure act yet.
Nate Reineke (23:34)
Yeah, yeah,
right. Okay. All right. Well, let's get to the last question then.
Chelsea Jones (23:42)
Okay.
Nate Reineke (23:44)
I want to work part time or kind of ultra part time in retirement. How will this impact my social security?
Chelsea Jones (23:52)
So this the way that this question is phrased, I am assuming that you're already retired and you're receiving social security, a social security benefit. ⁓ So if you go back to work and you're earning, if you're married and you earn as a household, at least I think it's about forty four thousand dollars, a portion of your social security benefit is going to be taxable.
Nate Reineke (24:01)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (24:18)
I think if you make more than $44,000, 85 % of your benefit will be taxable, your social security benefit. And if you make between like maybe 10 and 44, half of it is taxable. ⁓ And so how would it impact your social security? ⁓ A portion of your benefit will be taxed. ⁓ And so, yeah, and you can also...
Nate Reineke (24:38)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (24:45)
Again, deeper planning could be done at any point. It's like, you taking social security before your full retirement age after at 70, which is the latest you can take it and get a higher benefit? Yeah, but the main takeaway is that if you're making enough, then your benefit is going to be taxable. Part of it is.
Nate Reineke (24:48)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah,
this is just people who want to work ultra part time, usually that there is some purpose behind it. They want to work. And so if you don't want to work and you think you have to work, then it just requires a plan. And it's like, is it really worth is it really worth it, given that you'll pay higher taxes? Usually, I don't really think that's the case. And so, yeah, you'll get taxed on Social Security if you're working and taking Social Security at the same time.
Chelsea Jones (25:18)
the
Nate Reineke (25:38)
It's not going to hurt you as far as your ability to fund retirement. probably help you because you're earning money. Right? So, and you'll get other tax breaks too. If you have the option to probably fund your workplace plan, save some taxes there. So, ⁓ but yes, people ask that. I'm not really sure where that comes from. Like what fear is behind this, but obviously it will be taxed.
Chelsea Jones (25:42)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (26:06)
Okay, so those were really the top kind of questions. Before we were talking, there was something you were saying ⁓ about kind of a big takeaway. It's not really a question you get, but it's one I think you think people miss. So what's the one thing you want everyone to know about spending money in retirement?
Chelsea Jones (26:30)
Yep, so I'll preface this with kind of giving an idea of what we talk about in the accumulation phase when we're talking about saving for retirement. ⁓ If you do a plan with us, you'll hear us talk about the different levers that you can pull before retirement to
Nate Reineke (26:45)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (26:47)
Can I get your plan where you want it to be? ⁓ You could adjust how much you spend in retirement. You can adjust your retirement age. You can adjust your investments, ⁓ assuming that your risk tolerance allows for it. ⁓ You can save more earlier. But once you're retired, unless you're willing to go back to work, if you need to make an adjustment in retirement, it's
Nate Reineke (27:05)
Mm-hmm.
Chelsea Jones (27:17)
nine times out of 10 gonna be adjusting your spending. If you're retired, you have to be ready to make an adjustment in your spending at some point in your retirement, unless you just have, some people are super prepared and have saved really more than they would need. But most people, you're gonna have to adjust your spending at least once guaranteed when you're retired.
Nate Reineke (27:32)
Yeah.
Yeah,
of course. You know, I think that there is this feeling of I want control over my plan. I don't want to have to think about spending. don't want to have to. I just want to ignore all that and just have plenty of money. That takes a ton of preparation and you can be prepared enough for that, but it would take some serious saving. And really what it takes is ⁓ appropriate spending compared to how much you have saved.
Chelsea Jones (27:49)
Mm-hmm.
It does.
Nate Reineke (28:10)
Because the guy that spends $5,000 a month doesn't need a ton saved to retire. But if you want to be able to just freely spend $15,000, $20,000 a month, you're going to need a ton of money. So if you don't have a ton of money, but you still could retire, you just need to be able to be flexible. And there's times that you will experience in retirement because you're hopefully going to have a long, retirement, 20, 30 years.
Chelsea Jones (28:10)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
and
Nate Reineke (28:40)
⁓
If the market's down and it's down for a long period of time, you just need to be able to adjust. And so the ways you can adjust is to get all of your fixed expenses down as low as you can. This is paying off debt, making sure you enter into retirement with a well-kept house, things like that. ⁓ But at the end of the day, if you're just willing to be flexible,
Chelsea Jones (28:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (29:09)
a lot of the worries about entering retirement can go away. ⁓ Like you said, if you're not willing to go back to work.
So ⁓ funny thing, I kind of like when people have big travel goals, because in the back of my head secretly, my almost like evil plan is that if something really bad happens, they could just not travel that year.
Chelsea Jones (29:35)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (29:35)
And they don't want that. And we're not preparing for that. We're preparing a plan that allows them to travel. But if something
were to happen, well, you could always shift this. And so if they have a big healthy travel goal and let's say it's $50,000 a year, and it's like, OK, well, maybe this year you're only spending $25,000. Most people are totally fine with that when I finally reveal my evil plan. They're like, oh, yeah, I could definitely do that. So.
Chelsea Jones (29:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (30:04)
Okay, that's good. One lever in retirement, so be prepared, have a plan. ⁓ That is it for today. As you know, you can go to our website, physicianfamily.com and schedule an interview with us. You'll take a quiz to see if, ⁓ you know, kind of get ⁓ pre-qualified for an interview. And then we'll meet, we'll see if we're a match. You can decide if you want to move forward. We sell one-time plans that have a regret-free guarantee.
So you can get a plan from Chelsea or you get a plan from me. And if you don't like it or didn't give you what you thought, we will give you your money back. And then after that, if you want to move forward and let us help you through the kind of all sorts of stages, preparing for retirement, actually retiring, we can do that too. If you're not ready for that, please go to this podcast episode if you enjoyed it, like it, share it.
and subscribe to our podcast so that we can get the word out to other physicians just like you. That is it for today. So until next time, remember, you're not just making a living, you're making a life.
Chelsea Jones (31:07)
you
