Nate Reineke (00:13)
Hello physician moms and dads. I'm Nate Renneke, Certified Financial Planner and Primary Advisor.
W. Ben Utley (00:20)
And I'm Ben Utley, certified financial planner and the service team leader here at Physician Family. Today we have a special guest. It is Lawrence B. Keller, also known as Larry to me. ⁓ Larry and I have been friends and colleagues since before COVID, I think 10 BC, so 10 or 15 years ago. ⁓ Larry specializes in disability insurance for physicians, particularly younger physicians. He is far and away the best disability insurance agent
I have had the experience with. I discovered him when we had a client in common and just saw his work and was impressed by it. So I wanted to have him on the show. ⁓ And with that said, before we get to Larry, just understand he has a couple of licenses. He has some disclosures to make. Those disclosures can be found on the show notes. With that said, Larry, welcome to the show.
Lawrence B. Keller (01:12)
Hey, Ben, I am glad to be here. Nate, looking forward to it and seeing you live is always great. And with any luck, I can share some good advice, maybe some recommendations along the way.
Nate Reineke (01:22)
Yes.
Great. Yeah, Larry, I think I have known about you and known your name since the day I stepped foot in this office eight years ago, but our audience may not know. So can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? You know, I want to know about your family and just how you got to where you are today. Oh, yeah.
W. Ben Utley (01:41)
Tell us about your car. ⁓
Lawrence B. Keller (01:42)
Yeah, I can tell you about that
too. you know, so oddly enough, you know, like most insurance guys, how did I get here? By accident. You know, I started, you know, back in August of 1990. When I started, I was working for a large insurance company. They were teaching me how to do college education funding for people that had young children. But what did I know?
I was in my 20s myself. I didn't have kids. I was lucky I knew what a kid was. So a year later, you know, after getting in early and staying late, I basically said to the person that ran my office, this is terrible. Like I'm not making any money. I'm working all these crazy hours. I think I've had enough. And he said, but no, you have it all wrong. You're doing great.
And I'm like, I don't know what your definition of great is, but not being able to afford my ticket on this railroad to get to Manhattan does not really meet great in terms of my definition. So he reached back into his pocket and he said, you know, you're this young guy, the clients seem to really enjoy you. You're very detailed. Why don't you try working in the medical marketplace?
W. Ben Utley (02:34)
it.
You
Lawrence B. Keller (03:00)
And I said, well, what do you mean the medical marketplace? And he came out with a stack of papers and he said, you know, you should maybe call these people. sent them a letter. I'm too busy, but they're waiting to hear from me. I didn't know anything. I was in the middle of Manhattan. I saw his certifications after his name. I said, this is great. I'm happy to reach out, but where are the phone numbers? Now, Ben, you all know this. This was pre-internet.
W. Ben Utley (03:00)
Thank
Yeah.
Lawrence B. Keller (03:25)
He gave me
W. Ben Utley (03:25)
Yeah.
Lawrence B. Keller (03:26)
the white pages and he told me to go look up the phone numbers.
W. Ben Utley (03:31)
Later will explain well there have to be something in the footnotes about what a white page is because some of our listeners do not know that
Nate Reineke (03:33)
Ha ha.
you
Lawrence B. Keller (03:36)
Yes.
So it was basically
a phone book where you could look people up and it had to be at least six inches thick. And doctors were really smart. Like if they listed themselves, they didn't list their full name, they didn't list their address. So I was going on a wing and a prayer hoping that I was actually looking up the right person. Well, lo and behold, the first person that I spoke to happened to be an ophthalmology resident.
W. Ben Utley (03:47)
Yeah.
Lawrence B. Keller (04:06)
Now this just goes to show you how little I knew because A, I didn't know what a resident was and I did not know what an ophthalmologist was. So I said to the guy, hey, I want to talk to you about disability insurance. You know, it's going to be very educational. This is something that you're going to need to protect your income down the road. And he said, well, you seem like a nice guy. I'm happy to meet with you. And I said, that's great. Can you now tell me what an ophthalmology resident is?
W. Ben Utley (04:07)
Uhuh.
Nate Reineke (04:13)
Hmm.
Hehehehe
Lawrence B. Keller (04:35)
And
can you be so kind and let me know if you actually make any money?
W. Ben Utley (04:40)
Larry,
we all know what an ophthalmology resident is. It's someone who lives in the eyeball.
Lawrence B. Keller (04:46)
Yes. He
Nate Reineke (04:46)
You
Lawrence B. Keller (04:47)
told me, I live in the eyeball. I don't really make any money, but I plan to in the future. And I said, you sound like a great candidate for me to get together with. So now it's 34 years later of my 35 years in the business. 34 is essentially a hundred percent physicians dealing with disability insurance and term life insurance and other aspects of their lives. And me.
I don't know, I've been married for 30 years. Congrats to me, I just celebrated my anniversary. I've got an aspiring screenwriter ⁓ as a child. I've got an aspiring ⁓ architect with a master's degree in architecture and my nest is now full once again.
W. Ben Utley (05:20)
Yay.
Nate Reineke (05:31)
Wow, fantastic. All right, so you're here by accident, but here nonetheless. So, ⁓ okay, I got some questions for you, Larry. And these are questions we get all the time. I'm sure you get them as well. So ⁓ everybody should listen up. Larry's got a lot of great experience and ⁓ he serves people really well. first question, Larry, many attending physicians have some level of group
W. Ben Utley (05:31)
Nice.
Lawrence B. Keller (05:37)
Yes.
Nate Reineke (06:00)
disability insurance through their employer. When is that enough? And when should they strongly consider a private individual policy?
Lawrence B. Keller (06:10)
All right, so I would say it's, you can't say it's never enough, right? Cause that's when you go to take a test, you'd never pick that. But I would say overwhelmingly, it's unlikely that that will be enough. And I say that for a couple of reasons. ⁓ Number one is group insurance has its limitations. So let's say, Nate, you're working for me, I'm in a practice or a hospital.
Nate Reineke (06:17)
Yeah.
Lawrence B. Keller (06:36)
And I tell you, provide disability insurance as part of your benefits package. And I'm going to give you, let's say 60%, that's the most common, 60 % of your salary with a maximum monthly benefit of typically $10,000 or $15,000.
Nate Reineke (06:41)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (06:54)
And you're looking at this, you're like, well, that's pretty good. I'm getting 60 % of my salary. Let's say that the maximum is $15,000 a month. Well, I can tell you, and we could do math, right? We're all certified financial planner professionals here. Well, 60 % of 300,000, that's going to give you $180,000 a year or $15,000 a month. You are now at the maximum. But general rule,
is if you're getting something at no cost from me and I'm not adding back to your taxable income that the premium I'm paying on your behalf, it's not quite so free. The cost is those benefits, should you receive them, become taxable to you. So now you're at 60%, which is not 100%.
W. Ben Utley (07:40)
Mmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (07:44)
The cap is $15,000 a month. So anything that you earn above 300,000, you have no coverage for. And anything at the 300,000 or lower level is taxable to you. So it's unlikely that that's going to be sufficient for you. We also know that group insurance, Ben jump in here for a sec.
Nate Reineke (08:04)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (08:09)
Yeah, so Larry, it was a two-part question. All right. So how do you know if a group insurance is enough? But you laid your finger on something that I think is kind of latent. It's not well followed or well known, but it is a matter of fact. And this is a super basic thing. But when you deduct the premiums that you pay for disability insurance, that disability insurance proceeds are fully taxable. But if you opt to pay taxes,
on those, on the premiums, which is to say, if you go to your employer and you say, yeah, pay my premiums, but tax it to me as if I'd received it as income, then the proceeds are tax free. Now, this is a nuanced thing. ⁓ we catch it on a pretty regular basis here. Many employers will allow you to go and say, Hey, just tax me on that. So you're paying pennies rather than dollars for these things. This is a, this is a good take home. This is a good take home for even, you know, docs that are kind of in mid career or late career, especially, ⁓
Lawrence B. Keller (08:49)
Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (09:06)
It may just be a phone call to HR or a discussion with the person who handles your payroll to get that to happen. And I mean, the difference in this case, I mean, it's probably, ⁓ maybe 30 % of that 180,000. like 50 grand a year, you know, I mean, wouldn't walk away from $4,250, ⁓ just for the sake of making a phone call, you know? So, ⁓ I want the listeners to make a note of that. Cause, ⁓ if you have group policy and you're not being taxed on your premiums, you know, you're, you're going to be missing out a big old chunk of your, of your stuff.
Lawrence B. Keller (09:36)
Yeah, the other thing that you might find, and some of the listeners might not even be aware of this, if you look at your pay stub and you see LTD, IMP, so LTD stands for long-term disability, IMP stands for imputed income, or you might see a star there that says taxable, that actually indicates that the premium is being added back to your taxable income, making the benefits tax-free. But let's say your early career for a moment.
W. Ben Utley (09:49)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (10:06)
One thing that is important is if you elect to make your long-term disability benefits income tax-free from work, assuming that your employer allows for this, that actually is going to potentially reduce the amount of individual coverage that you can buy. So part of the issue is if you're trying to maximize your individual coverage, even given a choice, you might intentionally have your group plan be income taxable.
W. Ben Utley (10:23)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (10:35)
to leave more room to buy a larger individual policy.
W. Ben Utley (10:40)
And then later on you could you could flip it if you wanted to right because once your underwriting is done for the private coverage You can go back and say okay now now let's make and that's that's not fraudulent You know, it's what happens after the policy is issued. It's just a matter of fact. So so
Nate Reineke (10:40)
Hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (10:52)
Yeah, they're going to
ask you probably what's more prevalent is you find insurance agents asking you if you have group insurance coverage and you might say no. But the applications today ask, do you have or will you be eligible for long-term disability coverage? It could be 12 months. It could be in the next 36 months. So I always tell people, really need to go to your employer ahead of time and find out.
W. Ben Utley (11:04)
Okay.
Boo.
Lawrence B. Keller (11:20)
Do they offer long-term disability coverage? Are they providing long-term disability coverage? Because if they offer it, we're going to note that on the application. And if you're specifically opting out of that, the insurance company is going to say, well, Ben, you told us you're going to opt out. Using your guaranteed salary of X, we're willing to give you this much. But then they're going to add something that says this policy is being issued based upon you telling us.
W. Ben Utley (11:43)
you
Lawrence B. Keller (11:49)
that you are not going to opt into the voluntary group insurance plan. And should you subsequently opt in and you become disabled, we're going to reduce the amount that we will pay you under this policy, because you told us you weren't going to do that. You didn't hold true to your word. And as a result of that, we don't want to incentivize you to become disabled. So very logical.
W. Ben Utley (12:13)
Okay, so we're having a very left brained way down in the weeds and minutia. It's clear to me, you know what you're talking about. It's been clear to me for the last 15 years. ⁓ we're having a thunderstorm here at my end. ⁓ So, but I'd like to kind of take it up a notch in terms of like concept. So this is like how you get your coverage, how you stack it. I want to hear like, I want to tell me a story. It's story time. And you can mention like,
Lawrence B. Keller (12:22)
Yes.
Hahaha
Yeah.
Nothing.
W. Ben Utley (12:43)
Two numbers in the story, but everything else has got to be easy peasy to digest because, you know, I'm on my Peloton, I'm driving my car. I don't want to be so flooded with numbers. just drive off the road. So give me, give me a good story. It's story time with uncle Larry.
Lawrence B. Keller (12:56)
All right, so here's my story time. So I've got a client, he's a highly specialized surgeon. He finishes his fellowship and he goes to a private practice. And the private practice says to him, we don't provide you with long-term disability insurance, but we make available voluntary long-term disability coverage that you would pay for with post-tax dollars. You don't get a choice. So any benefits that you receive would be income tax free.
So what does he do? He comes to me. He says, Uncle Larry, I am starting my job. This is my salary. I was offered this voluntary long-term disability coverage. I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm a highly specialized surgeon. I can tell you the medical side of things. I need your advice. What would you do? And they usually coax it. If you were in my situation and you were advising your family member.
I'm like, that's an easy one. I would not take the voluntary long-term disability coverage and I would buy my individual policy to the maximum. He follows up, he's a smart guy. Why would you do that? I'm like, well, number one is this is your first job. The majority of physicians do not stay in their job. If you buy a voluntary group plan and it is not portable,
and you leave, now you're going to go ahead and you're going to buy disability insurance later, or you're going to look to up your individual disability insurance later and you're going to be older and it's going to be more expensive. Number two is group insurance plans. Not only do they have that limitation, like we talked about that $15,000 maximum, but you find that there are offsets. So if someone gets hurt on the job and they get workers compensation,
W. Ben Utley (14:33)
⁓ Right.
Lawrence B. Keller (14:47)
that's going to reduce the group plan benefit. If they get social security disability, that's going to reduce the group plan benefit. Now here's a big kicker is social security is not considered insurance. So even if Nate, you went in, you opted for the voluntary plan, you're like, this is great. I got $15,000 a month tax free. If you meet the definition of disability under social security, the social security portion is going to reduce the group insurance plan.
W. Ben Utley (15:13)
⁓
Lawrence B. Keller (15:17)
you'll still end up with the same 15,000. But let's say 2000 was from social
W. Ben Utley (15:20)
So Larry, this explains something.
Lawrence B. Keller (15:23)
security. That's gonna be a taxable benefit for the 2000 and the 13,000 of insurance will be tax free. Then you've got the definitions of the plan. Yep, there we go, that's it. So then we've got, got my true numbers in. So now we say, well,
W. Ben Utley (15:32)
Okay, you've exhausted your two numbers.
You got your two numbers out there. So this explains something that I have seen
in the past. So group disability insurance is almost always, I must say almost, just hedging, but I'll say it's always cheaper than private insurance because of this, because of the offsets and the limits and all that good stuff. Right? Is that?
Lawrence B. Keller (15:53)
Yes.
Yes, now on the positive side.
W. Ben Utley (16:03)
So, mean, essentially it's cheaper because you
get less insurance.
Lawrence B. Keller (16:07)
Yes and no. On the positive side is we don't replace on the individual side a true 60 % of your income at the larger income levels. So the more you make that replacement ratio drops where a group insurance plan, especially if there's a large maximum that could truly replace 60 % plus or minus those taxes depending upon what you elected to do.
W. Ben Utley (16:30)
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Got it.
Lawrence B. Keller (16:33)
Now, the other part of the story with no numbers involved is the definitions are generally much less liberal. Like any plan that you have, if it's own occupation, even if the group plan says it's own occupation, if you're disabled and you can't do your job and you choose to earn income doing something else, whether it's in medicine or outside, your benefit is typically going to be reduced or even eliminated.
And the group plans typically do not cover bonus, overtime, shift differential, anything beyond your base salary. And that can vary based on one plan to another, but it's important to get a copy of the group certificate so it can be analyzed properly.
W. Ben Utley (17:01)
Mm-hmm.
you
Uh-huh.
Okay, so we've been talking about group, which is something you don't have a lot of control over. We've been talking about young docs and setting up and getting your stuff in place before you start working. But there are a number of listeners to our show that are physicians in their mid-career to late career. So Nate, I think we have a question from one of those listeners about mid to late career. And I want to make sure that they get some juice out of this show as well.
Nate Reineke (17:45)
So like Ben was saying for physicians who are further along in their career ⁓ sometimes they ask whether or not they should drop their disability insurance right so yeah is that a good idea?
Lawrence B. Keller (17:54)
Yeah, that comes up all the time.
Nate Reineke (17:58)
Or I have heard Ben talk about, Ben's, he's talking to you too long, Larry, he's getting really good at disability insurance. ⁓ I heard there's a way that you can just reduce premiums.
Lawrence B. Keller (18:10)
Yes. So it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. let's say first and foremost, we want to go all or nothing. I'm not going to go extreme numbers on you here, Ben, but you guys are certified financial planners. You can handle it. Even the audience can handle it. So let's say we have someone that's 60 years old. They've got a $15,000 a month benefit. And if they were disabled today, let's just say that the policy is going to pay them benefits.
W. Ben Utley (18:33)
Next.
Lawrence B. Keller (18:40)
for five years. So you've got 300,000, we'll assume no waiting period, no deductible, five years of benefits, you know, at 180,000 a year. You you basically do the math and you say, is that going to impact my ability to retire or my ability to be financially independent? If the answer is no, it's not gonna change anything.
W. Ben Utley (18:50)
So.
Lawrence B. Keller (19:05)
what I'm paying in premium is not worth what I'm actually protecting or insuring for, sure, you could cancel your policy. Now, most people, it's not even financial planning, it's more superstition. They feel that the day they cancel their policy is the day that they're gonna become disabled. So what we might do here is say, well, look, I've been working with Ben and Nate for years. I have an emergency fund. I don't have a three-month emergency fund. I've got six months.
Nate Reineke (19:19)
Haha
Yeah.
Lawrence B. Keller (19:34)
I'm going to change that my waiting period doesn't start at 90 days anymore. It goes to 180. That'll usually save me about 10%. If I had a COLA rider, an inflation rider on my policy that increases my benefit after disability begins, and typically this is going to happen a year after my disability begins, that might be a great deal when I'm in my early thirties. But if I'm 60,
W. Ben Utley (19:59)
you
Lawrence B. Keller (20:02)
and it's only going to increase my benefit from age 61 and I'm going to get paid to call at the age of 65, it's probably not that great a deal. Maybe I'll get rid of the Cola rider too. And I might make those changes. And in addition, I could potentially reduce my benefit as well. So it does not have to be an all or nothing thing. It's you look at it on a case by case basis. And that's where guys like you and Ben are worth
Nate Reineke (20:09)
Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (20:32)
you
Lawrence B. Keller (20:32)
anything that a client is paying you in fees, because
I say to people, yes, I'm a certified financial planner practitioner. I limit my practice to disability insurance and life insurance, but these guys are your financial security guys. They're the ones that are going to lead you to lead a better life and the treasure map of accumulating what it is you need to accumulate. I'm the product guy that happens to have the financial planning background to know whether what I'm recommending makes sense or not.
Nate Reineke (20:46)
Mm.
Lawrence B. Keller (21:01)
And we're really doing it as a group effort for the greater good of the client.
Nate Reineke (21:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, well thanks for saying that.
Okay, so reducing the benefit, it does bring me back to planning. Obviously, we're planners here. And a lot of people ask about dropping it altogether. this for life insurance and disability reminds me of planning. And essentially what we're getting to is eventually achieving this thing that is being self-insured. And really with a plan,
you can know pretty quickly whether or not you need your disability coverage. The only time I can imagine someone dropping it is if they are ready to retire, right? So if they're already ready to retire, they're sort of working for fun, then you could drop it. Other than that, it sounds like these are good options for just reducing your payment. But, you know, ⁓ I like to say, ⁓ you know, a lot of people complain, Larry, about how expensive disability insurance is. And the reason for it
⁓ is people use it all the time. I did a rough poll, think right now, something like three or five percent of the households that I talk to every year, three and five percent of them are currently using their disability insurance.
W. Ben Utley (22:03)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:19)
pretty remarkable.
Lawrence B. Keller (22:21)
No, it's,
it certainly happens. And as much as it happens, here's something else that's kind of staggering. And you probably see this, you know, with your own clients as you're reviewing their policies. Ben, we know it's not uncommon that you're going to find exclusion riders in the policy. we'll cover you for everything. Like good news, we're going to give you coverage, but we have to exclude or not pay benefits for certain body parts or certain medical conditions.
W. Ben Utley (22:24)
Thanks.
Nate Reineke (22:49)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (22:51)
And it doesn't reduce the premium, it just reduces the risk on the insurance company side, but allows them to offer coverage. So if we look at these studies, so when new disability policies are applied for, someone buying coverage, not going out on claim, every year there's a company, it's called Milliman, and they do a study of the applications that came in, which is 100%.
what percentage of the applications were issued as applied for. No modifications, everything that the person wanted, they got. 47 % is the number. conversely, 53 % of those policies were either declined or they were given a modified offer. Now of that, again, we know that we love numbers.
W. Ben Utley (23:27)
Wow.
Lawrence B. Keller (23:40)
You've got now 53 % against you, 47 % for you, 34 % of the 53 got modified. So they got an offer, they got coverage, they weren't declined, and 19 % were declined. Like that is substantial. So why do I tell you this? You should almost be looking for disability insurance as early in your career as possible, because most of the time,
by the time you learn or think that you need it, you might not be able to get it, at least not the way that you want to get it.
Nate Reineke (24:18)
Yeah.
W. Ben Utley (24:19)
So this brings up another issue kind of in the care and feeding of a disability insurance policy. ⁓ I've noticed that attentive agents will pay attention to these exclusion writers. So let's say, for example, a woman bears a child and after that has postpartum depression, ⁓ applies for disability insurance, and maybe there's an exclusion for mental and nervous claims, right? But that's going to age out.
Lawrence B. Keller (24:30)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (24:47)
You know the thing listeners need to know is that if you have an exclusion writer there's a chance that a job and it won't apply anymore and you can go back to the insurance company and say hey i want you to ⁓ remove that exclusion writer because it doesn't apply to me anymore. Strengthen your coverage and it doesn't doesn't increase your premium right i mean that's something that people should pay attention to have a look at this.
Lawrence B. Keller (25:09)
Yeah, so if they've got something that's chronic, odds are that's never going to come off. If you had surgery and you had hardware placed, that exclusion rider is going to be permanent. But because these policies are non-canceable and guaranteed renewable, they can't take it away, they can't change the premium rates, they can't change the provisions, they basically got one shot at the underwriting. So if it's something that's recent or something that's chronic, they're going to put an exclusion rider on there to protect themselves.
And they'll usually tell you, they'll say, well, you know, Ben, we can potentially reconsider this on the third policy anniversary if there's no symptoms and no treatment. They won't come after you to get that reviewed, but your agent should make a notation of that and say, hey, you know what? Three years have gone by. If you no longer have this issue, we should apply to have that exclusion rider potentially reviewed and removed.
W. Ben Utley (25:50)
you
Yeah. You know, I find it rare that physicians clients have a lasting relationship with their insurance person, particularly the DI person. And a lot of times they meet them in residency or training and they get sold a policy and then they, they moved through four states since then. And maybe the guy or gal was kind of a schmuck and they don't have anything to do with them. And these, these policies kind of become orphaned and you know, the doc doesn't know to look back at the policy and say, the exclusion writer reduced to these.
Nate Reineke (26:04)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (26:26)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (26:33)
things to keep up with the future purchase option. I think people who I sent to you have made the mistake of seeing you as just the product dude, rather than kind of a resource for maintaining these policies over time. Now with that said, mean, if they checked in with you even every two years, that would be often enough, but it's not like this is a bought, won and done kind of thing, especially if there's a...
Lawrence B. Keller (26:41)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (26:58)
a change in your employment, know, particularly if you're making more, I mean, you might want to speak to that for physicians that are maybe, I can think of a physician who maybe is like ⁓ at a university setting like Emory or something, and they're in academia and you know, something happens, they need to move and they wind up in private practice. So speak to that transition a little bit.
Lawrence B. Keller (27:19)
Yeah, so lot of times you'll have an increase option on the policy and it will allow you generally to say, hey, I just lost my employer provided group insurance coverage. I'm now working as an independent contractor. I'm self-employed. I went to a practice that has no long-term disability coverage. Very often that will trigger the option. At that point, we'll look at your income. We'll see if you have other disability insurance coverage provided by your new employer.
and we'll determine if you're eligible for more. And if you have an increase option, we could look to use that. If you don't, we can always supplement it with another policy from either the same company or another insurance company, depending upon what the market is like at that point in time. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is certainly not a one and done. And one of the riders or ways of increasing your coverage now, it's a no cost increase option.
Some companies, this is their only increase option. Other ones still offer the future increase option rider. And they require that you check in with them generally every three years. And if you don't check in, they remove the increase option from the policy, in some cases permanently. If you do check in and you qualify for additional coverage, you must purchase at least 50 % of what you're eligible for. So.
W. Ben Utley (28:26)
Mm-hmm.
Now want to stop right here for just a
second too, because, you know, I hear about physicians and they say, Hey, I got this thing from the insurance company. They want me to buy more insurance. Like many of them see this as a come on, you know, like another sales pitch and they don't realize that this is a feature of the policy. And in some cases, they actually paid for this.
Lawrence B. Keller (29:02)
And it's two different ones. So if you have the future increase option right, or you are paying for that, and as such, you can choose to use it or not use it based on your individual needs, goals, or budget. In the somewhat newer version, it's a no cost option, and it's included in the policy if you buy the minimal amount that's required to have it included. So the positive is you're not paying.
W. Ben Utley (29:24)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (29:26)
But the negative is it's not a come on, in order to maintain that increase option for continued use, contractually, you must check in. If you don't, you lose your option. If you do, and they make an offer to you based on your income and other coverage, you have to buy at least half of that. And if you don't, you lose it.
And for the audience, especially busy physicians, if you're lucky, your health is going to stay the same. If you're not so lucky, it's going to get worse. And you're not dead. You're not disabled. But if you're a surgeon and you've got a newly found disc herniation at L5S1, and you're thinking my career could come to a screeching halt at any time in near future, I guarantee you the first thing that you're thinking about is can I increase my disability insurance?
W. Ben Utley (29:48)
Thank Thank
Lawrence B. Keller (30:14)
And if you lost your increase option, whether you consider it your fault or your own and face it, it's never the physician's fault. It's going to be the agent and the insurance company's fault. Yeah, that's not so great on the agent. So I will urge listeners that have an increase option, whether it's the benefit update rider, the benefit increase rider, the maximize your benefit rider that really require check-ins.
W. Ben Utley (30:30)
So, thank
Lawrence B. Keller (30:43)
I would make sure that your agent or broker has a process to deal with this because if they don't, I can all but guarantee you that a large percentage of physician policyholders are going to lose their increase options.
Nate Reineke (30:59)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (30:59)
Yeah.
Nate, I feel like we're coming up on time here. Is that the case? Okay.
Nate Reineke (31:03)
We are, yeah. I have one more question and
then you can, we'll take us out after this one. So Larry, ⁓ what's the biggest mistake you see physicians make when it comes to disability insurance and what's the one thing you kind of want the listeners to take away from our conversation today?
W. Ben Utley (31:08)
Take us out. Okay. Sure.
Lawrence B. Keller (31:23)
I will tell you, the biggest mistake that physicians make is that they think the ethical bar that applies in medicine applies to every other profession. And there are people out there that want to sell products and they may or may not have the physician's best interest in mind. A great example is a lot of early physicians, you know, are here on visas and
Nate Reineke (31:32)
Hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (31:49)
I see these spreadsheets where someone goes to the internet and the agent sends them all sorts of quotes. And no one has ever asked the physician, are you a US citizen? Are you a permanent resident or are you a visa holder? Bar none, if you are a visa holder and God forbid you're disabled and you lose your visa sponsorship and you need to return to your country of citizenship.
Wouldn't you think that would be the first question that you would ask is if I became disabled and I need to return to my country of citizenship, is this policy going to continue to pay me? I ask that on every client intake that's asking about disability insurance. But let's suppose I didn't. And Nate, you were a visa holder from the UK.
Nate Reineke (32:27)
Mm-hmm.
Lawrence B. Keller (32:39)
You became disabled. You need to leave the United States and return to the United Kingdom. And your benefits end or never begin. How do you think that's gonna make you feel? You paid good money for a policy that really didn't meet what you were expecting to have happen. The other thing to bear in mind, like medicine, like financial planners,
Nate Reineke (32:39)
Mm-hmm.
W. Ben Utley (32:59)
Thanks.
Lawrence B. Keller (33:04)
All insurance agents are not created equal. But what is created equal is pricing. So you can almost think of an insurance policy for the most part like an iPhone. The price is the price. And if two agents have access to the same discounts and they structure the policy the same way, the price is going to be exactly the same.
So unlike shopping for a car where you call everybody up, you send out emails and you're doing the best thing you can to get the best deal, you don't need to do that. If there's a level of trust and the person is providing you with advice and discounts, the price is going to be the same. So I would almost start off my conversation with.
Hi, I found you in any number of ways. Before we get started, let me just ask you, do you have access to something that is exclusive that you can offer me, whether it's a discount, simplified underwriting, for residents and fellows, it could be what's called a guaranteed standard issue plan. So let's say my answer is no. Then you go to the second question, is even if you don't have access to something.
W. Ben Utley (34:01)
Thanks.
Lawrence B. Keller (34:19)
Do you know of something that is exclusive, whether it's a discount, simplified underwriting, or a GSI plan? And can you provide me with the contact information for that agent? Very simple. So I would urge people to just keep in mind the price is the price unless it's something exclusive. And you won't know unless you ask that agent, do you know of or do you have access to something that's exclusive that you can offer?
Nate Reineke (34:50)
That's good. So you're shopping for the agent, not necessarily the price.
Lawrence B. Keller (34:55)
Correct.
W. Ben Utley (34:55)
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (34:56)
Got it. Well, great, Larry. Larry, before Ben takes us out, can you tell people how to get in touch with you?
Lawrence B. Keller (35:04)
Sure, so email is always great. It's lkeller, L-K-E-L-L-E-R at physicianfinancialservices.com. All spelled out, it's long, but it's easy. I'm always reachable by phone, 516-677-6211.
Use me as a resource, even if you want your coverage reviewed, if you're not sure if you have an increase option on your policy, if your agent disappeared or you don't have a relationship with your agent and you're looking to pick up a relationship and have someone service your existing policy, I'm happy to do that if I can.
Nate Reineke (35:40)
Mm-hmm.
Thank you, Larry.
W. Ben Utley (35:45)
Great.
Yeah. So our guest today has been Lawrence B. Keller of Physician Financial Services. If you'd like to reach out to him, there's going be contact information in the show notes. So we've asked Larry a lot of questions today, but I have a question for you. Did you know that we have a YouTube channel? You may be listening to us on the radio. ⁓ If you're interested in seeing what we look like, if you want to see Larry's beautiful face, all you got to do is just go find our YouTube channel. ⁓
Nate Reineke (36:02)
you
Lawrence B. Keller (36:09)
Hahaha
W. Ben Utley (36:13)
So we're there. If you're looking for a financial advisor, you've found them. ⁓ Visit physicianfamily.com, click get started to learn more about us and apply for an interview. If you're not ready to take that step, then you can send us a question, podcast at physicianfamily.com. We will answer your question even if we don't use it on the air. So we'd love to hear from you. And in the meantime, folks, remember you're not just making a living, you're making a life.
