Nate Reineke (00:12)
Hello, physician moms and dads. I'm Nate Renike, certified financial planner and primary advisor.
Kyle Hoelzle (00:18)
And I'm Kyle Helsley. I'm a certified financial planner as well, and I am a retirement investing specialist.
Nate Reineke (00:24)
Kyle, you're back. Ready to talk about ⁓ your specialty today. Talking investments today. So I have a few questions that you get all the time, but before we do that, I got an interesting one for you. It's not in your specialty, but I get the question all the time about ⁓ buying land. Physicians always want to buy land, or maybe it's the physicians we talk to that want to buy land because they got big families and want room to spread out.
Kyle Hoelzle (00:31)
That's right.
Nate Reineke (00:55)
And I don't know if people know this about you, but you own quite a bit of land. You own almost seven acres. Tell me what it's like, because I have an idea. My family has some, my grandparents had some, my dad has some now. What is it like for you? Do you like it? Do you regret it?
Kyle Hoelzle (01:11)
Yeah, mean, it rural properties give us and they take it away, you know, like you mentioned, like we love space. We love having the space. You know, there's just something about being outside and not having traffic or a lot of people around. know, my wife and I grew up in country living and so it's kind of near and dear to us.
Nate Reineke (01:17)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (01:41)
⁓ But honestly, the main reason we moved was for schools. We were looking for good schools, to be honest. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, that's super important, right?
Nate Reineke (01:49)
Hmm.
Yeah. I always say if you buy a house with a good school, because every time I'm talking houses, usually it's first or second house. By the time it's like the third house, most people know what they're doing. They don't have a lot of questions. ⁓ But if you buy a house with a good school district, you're in good shape. No matter what happens to the housing market, as long as you can afford your payments, continue investing, and there's a good school nearby, you're pretty much set.
Like you don't have to move if things all good. Wait, anytime there's a hint of talking about like, should I move? I'm like, but Mateo's school's right there and it's great. Let me just stay. So I'm with you. But ⁓ what about the expenses? Cause I mean, my dad owns property. I was there this last weekend and I mean, he's a financial advisor. He does well for himself and still.
Kyle Hoelzle (02:37)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (02:51)
will not pay anybody to come out to his house and work because if he did, he'd have someone out there all the time. There's just always something to do. I was literally building scaffolding with him this weekend. And I looked down and I'm like, hey, we shouldn't be doing this. Let's get back to our laptops. But it's always something. So is it the same for you?
Kyle Hoelzle (03:02)
you
Thank
Yeah, I mean, it really is. mean, it's more, you know, it's more mowing, it's more tree trimming, it's more infrastructure you got to put in. It's, you know, oftentimes, too, don't know, but it's like in other parts of the country, but at least here in Oregon, I mean, when you look at rural properties, it's hard to find the location, the size of land and the quality of house you're looking for. You oftentimes, rural properties have
Nate Reineke (03:42)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (03:45)
manufactured homes or no home on it. And so it can be difficult to even find one that fits. But, you know, one thing that I found with a country property versus when we live in the city is that, I mean, like you kind of mentioned that, I mean, there's always something to do. There's always a project that needs your attention and you almost have to like, give yourself permission to do something else, right? Like you have to be like, you know what, it's okay to go on vacation for a week and let this project.
Nate Reineke (04:11)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (04:15)
just sit here. ⁓ My dad always said, you the great thing about work is it's always waiting for you to come back. you know, you just have to give yourself permission to get away from it. But I will say that you either have to be fairly handy, you know, or you have to be willing to open up your checkbook to hire handy people. So I may definitely consider that like how handy am I? How much do I want to do on this property versus hire out? ⁓
Nate Reineke (04:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (04:43)
So it's definitely a lot. I would say ultimately, like most things in life, if you want it bad enough, then it's a labor of love and it's worth it. But if it doesn't fit in your values and it's not something that you really desire or need, then I wouldn't do it because it's a lot of work.
Nate Reineke (05:01)
Yeah, it's like the romantic dream of it doesn't always pan out unless you really, really love it. And I know you love it. I know my dad loves it. He's, you know, getting older, but and still doing the work, which tells you something. I mean, like, I him sleeping on the couch a few times this weekend. And in between, he's out there doing something like, all right, well, yeah. So for physicians, a lot of times I feel like maybe they don't have the time or the energy.
But for the ones who really want it, they're gonna do it, you know, and it'll probably be worth it, but it'll be a lot of work and a lot of lessons for those kids. I Mean there's always something to work on for them
Kyle Hoelzle (05:37)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, lot of learning to be done out in the country for kids about life and death and getting dirty and all that. Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (05:48)
That's right.
Yeah.
That's right.
My boys were picking up eggs every, I mean, anytime they could, every few hours if they could. Okay, we have one, we have like five questions. No, four questions we're gonna answer today about investing. First one is from a family medicine doctor in Oregon. My wife is retiring soon at 50 years old.
Kyle Hoelzle (06:02)
Nice.
Nate Reineke (06:20)
She was wondering if it makes sense to do Roth conversions in her 401k plan.
What do think, Kyle?
Kyle Hoelzle (06:26)
Well, so it sounds like someone who's still employed and is thinking about doing these in-plan 401k Roth conversions. ⁓
Nate Reineke (06:34)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (06:35)
The situation here reads as if basically they're asking, do I take my pre-tax traditional dollars that I've funded previously and got the tax deduction on and go ahead and move that into the Roth 401k bucket, which since none of those dollars have been taxed, that would make the full amount that is converted to the Roth subject to income taxes. Am I understanding that right?
Nate Reineke (07:00)
I think so, that's how I read it.
Kyle Hoelzle (07:02)
Yeah, that's what I, that's my memory serves. So, ⁓ you know, this again is kind of the age old question of what's, what's more beneficial, the tax free growth of the Roth versus taking the tax hit to do the conversion on the way in. Right. So.
Nate Reineke (07:17)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (07:20)
The main factor here to consider then would be the time the money will be invested in the Roth, i.e. the time that you can capture your tax-free growth ⁓ versus paying taxes now when you're in a high tax bracket because this person's still employed. So they're going to still be in a high tax bracket. ⁓
Nate Reineke (07:38)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (07:40)
What a lot of people, a lot of people get hung up on the romanticism, I think, of the Roth of that whole tax-free growth. And I think there's a common misconception where, and this is really like, this is obvious. I could see people doing this. And in fact, I've heard positions say this. They're thinking about their tax bracket today. They're thinking, wow, I'm in like the 37 % tax bracket higher if you have a state tax, if have a state income tax.
So the Roth, the tax free growth of the Roth sounds really appealing because you picture yourself in this 40 % tax bracket and then you picture 0 % and you're like, that's a huge benefit that Roth gives me. I think what people fail to remember is that when you are fully retired, you don't have an earned income. You're not going to be in that high tax bracket when you withdraw from your traditional pre-tax accounts. You're going to be in a much lower tax bracket because you have no earned income.
So really the benefit of the Roth is not your tax rate today versus 0 % tax rate later. It's your tax rate in retirement when you have no income versus 0 % tax rate on the Roth. And that gap is really not that big. We're talking maybe 15%, 20%, maybe not 40%, like people are picturing. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (08:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like half.
It's like, it's 50 % instead of 100%. So, you know, I was thinking about this, I got this exact, well, similar question yesterday, younger physician that's just like, should I do Roth or traditional contributions? This is the age old question. I mean, you and I probably answer this question 20 times a year. And it is, I'm convinced, because, you know, I talked to my grandpa.
Kyle Hoelzle (08:55)
Uh-uh.
Nate Reineke (09:20)
when he was alive about Roth versus traditional. And he's just, it's Roth. And that's because he never made over 50 grand a year. You know, of course it's Roth because it doesn't cost you very much in taxes to get the money in the Roth. But for a physician, it's paying 37%. It costs you 37 % to get the money in the Roth. And so the way I always look at it is you could
Kyle Hoelzle (09:32)
and
Nate Reineke (09:47)
Instead of costing you 37%, you could put 100 % of your money without paying any taxes into that 401k. On the traditional side, take all those tax savings, 40%, let's call it 10 grand, and then take 10 grand in tax savings and put it in a taxable account, brokerage account, then compare the two. And usually when you compare the two and you look at tax rates when you retired, whenever I've done it, so I was,
Kyle Hoelzle (10:08)
you
Nate Reineke (10:15)
I hate to say always, but every time I ran this calculation for a physician, it has always been ⁓ the case that the taxable plus traditional would work. Now, if you're in a different situation, for example, if this person, their wife that's retiring at 50, if they're working super part time and maybe they just have a really low income, that could work. I'm sure there are situations where it doesn't
it makes more sense to do the Roth. But I also think of this as if you're earning any income, you can do some Roth conversions really soon. Why don't you do Roth conversions in the next year when you have zero income? You can always do Roth conversions later. So, ⁓ yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, even if you're earning a little bit, but most likely you're earning quite a bit and you're not in a super low tax bracket. So I'm with you on that.
Kyle Hoelzle (11:01)
Mm.
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point. I mean, if you get to keep more of your money, not pay in taxes, and then you can reinvest that money, I think it's pretty obvious that that's the way to go to retain more of that money in your household and put that money to work rather than pay in taxes.
Nate Reineke (11:20)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Next question is from a dermatologist in Texas. I've accumulated several million dollars in my portfolio and according to your plan, this was my plan by the way, I can retire today. My portfolio is made up mostly of stocks. Is it a good idea to adjust so I own more bonds?
So I took a look at this, Kyle, and it was just a brief glance. We're still in the middle of writing his plan, but it's a ton of stocks. If my memory serves me, was like almost 100%. And great, very, very nicely built portfolio as far as how much is in there. Had a ton of growth. So the painful part is with all that growth, he's got a really, really
deep basis. So you have to pay taxes to buy bonds, which is never fun. But what do you think about this? mean, if he's going to retire in two to five years, should he buy more bonds?
Kyle Hoelzle (12:36)
This is you know, this is always tricky because this is an individual question for everybody I mean we're all individuals and we all have different risk tolerance, right? So I mean conceivably You could just say I have a high risk tolerance and I want to roll the dice on this, you know and That's how do you argue with that?
Nate Reineke (12:53)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (12:56)
someone's staying that type of risk tolerance. think my one comeback would be, you ever lived through a down market? Because thinking about experiencing one and actually experiencing one are two very different things when you actually see the dollar, you know, the value drop. So I would just kind of ask some of those questions to really make sure the risk tolerance is that high. ⁓ But let's assume that risk tolerance is not the not kind of the main factor here or not, or the main driving point. And of course,
Nate Reineke (12:57)
Sure.
Kyle Hoelzle (13:26)
You know, we consider that as as financial advisors and planners, but there's so much more for us to consider. You know, really what it comes down to is, is that capital preservation. So, you know, a major stock market correction could be upwards of 50 % decrease in value of your stocks. So, I mean, that's half, half. So in a hundred percent stock portfolio in this client's case, that could be a 50 %
loss of value. So if you have $10 million and there's a 50 % correction, you now have $5 million. Now, if you were to have added bonds and experienced that same 50 % correction, those bonds are going to hedge those losses. So it's going to cause you to lose less. And when you're getting ready to spend money in retirement, you don't have an income coming in anymore and you're dependent on your portfolio. The prudent thing is to not expose all of that.
Nate Reineke (14:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (14:24)
to the risks of the stock market because you need that money today. In the case of this client, he's gonna need it tomorrow. mean, five years is two to five years is like basically no time. ⁓ if you wanna retire and you wanna retire knowing that ⁓ you're not carrying as much risk and hence reducing your volatility and hedging your losses effectively, then you need to add more bonds in.
Nate Reineke (14:28)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (14:54)
you
need to add more bonds in because heaven forbids you spend a bunch of it and then you lose half of what's left and now you're in retirement and maybe you're to the point where you're too old to work, but that risk has, you know, it's put you in a bad spot carrying that extra risk. You don't have the time to rebound like you used to, right? That's the risk. That's the main risk there and bonds help hedge that risk.
Nate Reineke (15:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, bonds are like a seatbelt, right? Seatbelts don't make you drive any faster, but they're going to help you be more secure. So, you know, it's interesting because whenever you talk bonds with somebody that's really not all that interested in bonds, you talk about the bad things about bonds, like less growth, which of course, because bonds are just debt.
You're not going to get a stock like return on a note. You're getting very typical return. You're signing up for the return. I you can buy a bond and know what your turn is going to be if you hold it to maturity. Unless the issuer goes bankrupt, of course. So, but I think it's important to say what you get. So, bonds are more stable. You said that. ⁓ Income is predictable. You know, I just touched on that.
Something that people don't really believe in or put value in, think about much, is it is a behavioral protection. Kyle, you talk to these folks all the time about their portfolios. And even this person, they have seen some swings, but never with $10 million. Maybe 10 years ago, or maybe there's been some dips.
through their credit. was a dip. It wasn't very long, but there was a dip a couple of years ago that he did get through and he was okay. He didn't pull his money out of the market. But I've talked to people who are in their later years and they went through 2008 and they had a couple million dollars in there and they made all the wrong choices because they were just way too exposed and all these ideas of
Kyle Hoelzle (16:58)
you
Nate Reineke (17:15)
holding steady and not making any bad decisions goes out the window when you see your net worth get cut in half. it's just, it is not as sexy to buy bonds, but it is the prudent thing to do for most people. But like you said, everyone's a little bit different. Some people want more growth for whatever reason. And some people have convinced me in the past that they could easily reduce their spending in half.
Kyle Hoelzle (17:21)
.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (17:45)
and they would just rather take the risk. I don't quite share that sentiment because I just don't know why you would take the risk if you don't have to, but everybody is different like you said. The cool thing about bonds, the actual fun thing about them is that they're a good rebalancing tool. So if stocks go down and you're retired and you're not making any money, you can't take new money and go buy more stocks while they're cheap. But if you have some bonds,
You can sell your bonds and buy the stocks. So there's lots of good things about bonds. ⁓ They're not all that exciting. Nobody likes to talk about their, you know, US treasuries, but yeah, they're important.
So next question, emergency medicine doctor in North Carolina. I have a solo 401k and I have 1099 income and W2 income. I'm changing to primarily 1099 income soon. My CPA advised me not to be in a solo 401k but in a SEP IRA. That's a small employee plan IRA. What do you think of that advice?
Kyle Hoelzle (18:51)
Well, think that this is a normal ⁓ recommendation we come across, especially from tax
errors.
The SEP or the Simple Employment Plan, it's really easy. I literally has the, I mean, the name of it alone tells you it's really easy to adopt it, open it, know, fund it. And the contribution limits for it and sole 401ks are very much the same. And so in terms of like getting a tax savings and the ability to save for retirement,
A lot of people kind of just think that they're kind of the same result. So why don't you do the simple one? You know, why have the complexity of the solo 401k when you can get the same result from a tax standpoint, ⁓ using the SEP, right? So we do see this a lot, right? And every time we look into this, we get the same result for our physician clients and that's do the solo 401k. ⁓
Nate Reineke (19:39)
Mm-hmm.
all the time.
Kyle Hoelzle (20:02)
It's not as hard to set up and manage as some people might think. ⁓ When you're just the only employee or you have a spouse, you're the employer and you have a spouse employee, you know, those that's, what makes it a solo 401k. No, employees beyond that. It's, actually really simple to manage, you know, given, that limit, that limitation there of the participants. But one of the major factors is a SEP IRA.
Nate Reineke (20:21)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (20:32)
is part of your IRA bucket. The IRS will consider your SEP IRA as a portion of your traditional IRA system when you do a Roth conversion. And for those who are following along, if you want to look it up on the internet, it's called the pro rata rule. And your SEP is always going to be 100 % pre-tax. You get a deduction on the contributions and it grows tax deferred. So all that is fully subject to taxation.
The pro rata rule states that if you were to do a backdoor Roth by funding an empty traditional IRA and converting that to your Roth IRA, but you have money in a SEP IRA, regardless of where it's at, it be at any custodian anywhere, it's in your name. Those dollars are considered when you do that conversion such that they actually wait. They basically pro rata the taxation of your conversion based off of your total IRA pre-tax balance and after tax balance. So in this
Let's say you put 5,000 in a traditional IRA and you convert it to a Roth, but you had a $50,000 set. 5,000 of that was after tax and IRA non-deductible contributions. 50,000 of it is pre-tax. essentially, this is kind of a quick, this isn't precise, but a back-on-envelope calculation would tell you that's 10%. And so that means since 10 % of it...
Nate Reineke (21:38)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (21:58)
the is the 10%, that portion is never taxed again. That means 10 % of your conversion, the 5,000 you converted, 10 % of that is not subject to taxation, but the other 90 % that was made up from that SEP over here, that 90 % of your conversion is taxable. So you converted 5,000, but now 90 % of that is subject to income taxation. So now you're paying income tax on that as it gets converted. And I think we'd all agree that doesn't really make the Roth conversion strategy worth it when you're getting hit so bad on the way in.
Nate Reineke (22:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (22:27)
So just to put it, sorry, let me just put a nail on this.
Nate Reineke (22:28)
which bro? Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (22:30)
just to wrap up, know, one major advantage of the Solo 401k over the SEP is that when you fund the Solo 401k, you're keeping money out of that IRA bucket, that IRA system, and that allows you to keep an empty backdoor Roth so you can do tax efficient Roth conversions. The SEP IRA makes it so your Roth conversions would be tax inefficient, so much so that you shouldn't even do a backdoor strategy at that point if you have a fully funded SEP. So, yeah.
Nate Reineke (22:47)
Yes.
Yeah.
It's like the question we answered earlier, which is like, should I do conversions? I mean, we're basically describing a situation where you are converting pre-tax money and it's a bad thing. So, I mean, the way we talk about this, we say it's blocking your backdoor Roth, which is a bad thing. It's a no-no. So, yeah, it almost always makes sense.
for solo 401k's. We have seen seps and there are some instances where it works out, but if you want to do a backdoor Roth, do the solo. like you said, it's a little more, it's like when people, you said look it up in the internet, when people look this up, they kind of see like, this one's easier, this one's harder. But that's a spectrum of difficulty. Like how much harder? It's not that much harder. mean, there's a little bit more paperwork, but get it set up and then.
Kyle Hoelzle (23:50)
Hmm.
Nate Reineke (23:53)
there's an extra form on your taxes. So yeah, we love Solo 401ks.
Okay, last question. saved it for last, Kyle. Internal medicine doctor in Tennessee. I feel like I should own AI stock because it is the hot new thing. What do you think?
Kyle Hoelzle (24:11)
Well, I think that we, most of us own AI stock and we might not realize it. You know, if you have like a total US stock index fund that has large US, mid US, small US, I guarantee there's AI stock in there.
Nate Reineke (24:20)
Mm-hmm.
Of course. Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (24:31)
You know, and when you buy a true index fund, you're buying the appropriate amounts at each one of these companies because it's got some sort of metric that it's trying to keep within this index. Usually it's the market weighting of that stock. You know how much of that stock's value makes up the total market weighting of the stocks available. So, you you'd have to kind of dive into your fund to know exactly how much AI stock you own, but I mean, there's, you own AI stock. when...
When a client asked me that, said, well, you're not asking whether I should own AI stock or not because you own AI stock. What you're asking is, should I own more AI stock than what I currently own? And ⁓ this kind of goes back to the $10 million portfolio question of owning bonds. It's again, it's a risk question. know, you, in my opinion, ⁓
Nate Reineke (25:06)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (25:27)
overexposing yourself or adding additional stock types when you already own some of that means that you're overweighting yourself in that sector of the economy or that one company or whatever it is that you're aiming to buy into above and beyond your index, your total stock index fund. So I would say, again, it's a risk question, you do you want to take on this extra risk? Because
Nate Reineke (25:51)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (25:54)
It's just exactly what it is. ⁓ And it can be a values thing. know, some people might be like, I really believe in AI. think AI is the future. I love using AI. I want to be all in on AI. I want to own more AI stock. So there could be a kind of a personal life choice values angle as well. But I'll tell you from a strictly from a portfolio building portfolio construction slash retirement fund planning angle.
Nate Reineke (25:56)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (26:23)
⁓ I always tell clients, hey, it's okay to take extra risk on stuff like specific stocks like that or things like that. But don't do it with your core savings. You know, when you get a retirement plan, it says, here's how much you need to save to reach your goals. And it needs to be in these well diversified funds. Then you need, I would say be fully committed to that plan and hit those funding targets. But with that extra money, beyond and the amount you're funding to your plan.
That should give you that peace of mind knowing that your plan's on track, that you can go ahead and double down on some AI stock with this extra money or whatever else it is that you're pursuing by that property in the country. yeah, right. So, you know, I think a plan, I think using your plan to make those types of decisions is, I think it's one of the like privileges or one of the freedoms or benefits you get from having a plan.
Nate Reineke (27:01)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. you know, I always think about with that extra money, sometimes that it's just the kind of the greed sets in. It's never enough. It's never enough for people. And this is everybody. This isn't doctors. is literally it's human nature is just greed or fear. And that's what investments are driven by investment choices driven by by most people. And
The idea that you need to put all your money or 10 % of your money or 50 % of your money in something, some high risk or I should say really volatile asset class or stock, seems like a bit of a, it's either, it may be a misunderstanding of how this works. Like let's say you hit it big, you bought Nvidia before as Nvidia, you wouldn't have to have very much to make a million bucks. So it's okay to take
a smaller amount, whatever your small amount is. Some people that's 10 grand, some people that's 100 grand. But it's okay to take a small amount that's outside your plan and take some high flyers. ⁓ But it should be exactly that. The only place I would caution people in taking high flyers is that it is kind of like a drug if it works. If you like that drug and it hits, it's hard to take your foot off the gas and be really steady eddy over here.
And it's always funny to me because we look at like buying a index fund, a steady eddy, and it's not. You're taking risk. You're in Nvidia. You own all these stocks. Not to mention you own other companies that indirectly are affected by AI. You're all in on AI. Whenever people ask about crypto, you own stocks that are in crypto.
The companies are involved in this in the world. That's what's great about owning stocks. It's what's a little bit less desirable in my opinion about owning real estate. It's truly an asset class. But if you own everything and something big happens to the world, rising tides are going to raise all boats. So it's OK to not own individual stocks. And if you get really excited about one, just don't use it all.
Just don't use your regular savings like you're saying.
Yeah, that's good. It's interesting. Most people are really ⁓ happy with ⁓ your index funds, but every once in while something big hits and people want to know about that hot stock.
Are you still getting crypto questions?
Kyle Hoelzle (30:02)
Not like I used to know but Yeah, cool. It's cooled off a little But I mean I use the same logic that we just used with the With the AI stock, you know just like it's you're in the deep end of the pool here in terms of the risk and the speculative nature of this and
Nate Reineke (30:04)
Yeah, cooled a little.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (30:24)
Just going eyes wide open, you know, and I would certainly would not use any money that I couldn't stomach losing completely You know, that's that's the acid test, you know Hey, if I put this ten grand in and I never I don't get anything back. I only it goes to zero Am I gonna be okay with that, you know? And if you're okay that then you know, that's a lot, but You know, I always tell clients I hope it hits big I hope you guys hope it's I hope it's all upside for you and I really do
Nate Reineke (30:40)
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah. All right.
Yes.
Yeah. Okay. I'll take us out, Kyle. ⁓ Everyone, thank you for listening. ⁓ I have one request. If you enjoyed this episode, all I would like for you to do is go like and subscribe to our podcast. Like and subscribe. ⁓ You can like this episode. You can subscribe to the whole thing. We do have social media, but ⁓ we are very focused on our podcast. So we'd like to get it out to all of you and your colleagues. ⁓
If you would like us to answer one of your questions, you can email us at podcast at physicianfamily.com. Until next time, remember, you're not just making a living, you're making a life.
Kyle Hoelzle (31:34)
you
