Nate Reineke (00:12)
Hello, physician moms and dads. I'm Nate Renneke, certified financial planner and primary advisor. Today, I'm excited to welcome Kyle Hesley back to the show. Kyle is one of our financial advisors here at Physician Family, specializing in retirement investing. He's also a certified financial planner. So Kyle, it's been a while since we've had you on the show, but I thought no better time because we just had Father's Day last weekend.
Kyle Hoelzle (00:37)
Yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me. Father's Day was great. Hope all fathers out there had a good time and took a little time for themselves and a little time for family. So I'm excited to be here and to talk. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (00:46)
I saw something funny.
Yeah, I saw something funny the other day that was like someone asked, what do really want on Father's Day? And the joke was time to myself. It's like when you're a devoted father, ⁓ you spend a lot of time with the kids, but I'm sure ⁓ most of our listeners spend time with their kids, to themselves. Okay, well yeah, I know that's so true. Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (00:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, but it is a limited resource. Well, it is a limited resource time for you, you gotta make time
for it.
Nate Reineke (01:17)
So true.
Well, I know you're a devoted dad and someone who really embraces fatherhood. So we wanted to have you on and talk about some parenting stuff, but also ⁓ kind of parenting and money. So normally we spend our time on the podcast answering listener questions, but I'm going to go a different route. I'm just going to ask you questions about fatherhood.
Kyle Hoelzle (01:40)
Okay, sounds good. I love this topic. There's not a lot of financial education in schools, so a lot of financial education happens in the family. So I'm really excited to talk about this today.
Nate Reineke (01:41)
Alright.
Yeah.
That's right. Okay, well, tell me about how your parents taught you about money.
Kyle Hoelzle (01:58)
Wow. ⁓ Kind of two different versions, which kind of ironically mirrors what we are doing in my family in some ways. But ⁓ my mom had to like provide for herself at an early age. So she always talked about hard work and kind of one step at a time to kind of make it through, you know, getting where you need to go financially. ⁓ And my dad was like a saver. Like he was more of like a ⁓ he's a veterinarian. So he would
Nate Reineke (02:02)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (02:26)
He was a saver. And so he always talked to me about like, hey, delayed gratitude. It's not a bad thing to build up that excitement to get that item you want by saving for it over time rather than financing it right away. I think both these things served me really well in life. And I'm grateful for my parents for instilling those in me.
Nate Reineke (02:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
interesting I had a you know similar upbringing where two different households ⁓ and they had different outlooks on money but one that was you know better with money also was kind of a risk-taker so it's a ⁓ weird mixture of money ⁓ teachings to me but at the end of the day I had to make my own choices because maybe one side it wasn't great with money one side wasn't great but had the ability to make a lot of money
So it was quite interesting. You know what, we talked about spending time to ourselves. It made me think of parenting with our physician families that we serve. It's hard to teach kids about money when you don't have energy.
kind of a weird topic. Have you talked about that with clients before?
Kyle Hoelzle (03:38)
Yeah, I mean, just kind of in general about parenthood in general, it's like to do effective parenting, you need energy and you willpower. And oftentimes those things are in low supply, especially after a long day's work or a long day taking care of things around the house and running around and getting everything done and all the scramble that that ensues with kids and everything. It's really hard at that kind of late hour of the day or in that intense moment to muster up that willpower and energy. So.
Nate Reineke (04:06)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (04:07)
One thing I can tell listeners that's great is kids are actually pretty good communicators and they really remember things a lot. So you can always say in a moment, like, I don't have an answer for that right now, but I'll get back to you on that. And oftentimes that'll be okay. So you can always keep that in your mind. That way you don't overreact or overplay your hand or do something you regret. It's good that it's okay to pause. But we always forget that in the moment. feel like we gotta get it done.
Nate Reineke (04:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think.
Very true. And a topic like this, some people don't feel equipped to talk about it. So get out of the conversation, do some research and come back to them, I guess. But it's funny too, the whole delayed gratification like you're talking about, that only works if you do it yourself. Kids are sponges and they're witnessing you do something. So anytime ⁓ my oldest wants something and he, whatever, he wants it right away. ⁓
Kyle Hoelzle (04:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (05:02)
I have to explain to him, hey, like dad wants these things too, but do you see those around the house? Cause he, know, he doesn't know what I'm saving for. he's like, no, I don't get everything I want either. He's like, why not? Don't you have enough money for it? I'm like, ⁓ some of them I do, but it's not the right time or I need to spend money on other things. So yeah, bring them into the real world. ⁓ do you remember the first conversation? Well, tell me about your kids real quick. So how many do you have and how old are they?
Kyle Hoelzle (05:31)
Oh yeah, I have three daughters. So girl dad for life. My oldest is nine. She's soccer in the soccer and she's she's an intense player. She's she's an athlete. Definitely. My middle child is showing some athletic stuff too. She's also really into reading. And she's six and then my youngest is three. And she's she just kind of as my wife says puts the final touches on our family. I was like the perfect
Nate Reineke (06:00)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (06:00)
perfect finish
to our family because she's our sweet little angel baby if you will. yeah, ⁓ so I kind of have it all different stages right now, no teenagers.
Nate Reineke (06:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, okay. So do you remember the first time you talked about money at your house, maybe with your nine-year-old?
Kyle Hoelzle (06:15)
⁓ yeah, I do. ⁓ you know, pretty early on kids want stuff in the checkout lines, you know, or the trip to the old, ⁓ Tarjay, if you will, you know, the target run and this, you know, ⁓ are other stores, you know, ⁓ it's kids always, they, they see things, they want things. And like you said earlier, they, they want it right then. so.
Nate Reineke (06:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (06:39)
you of course it's not your priority to buy this new toy for 50 bucks sitting on the shelf, right? So ⁓ that's when I kind of first had any conversations like kind of you did was like, re-film, re-film, roping them back into the real world and being like, look, like if dad wants something special or extra, I have to either work harder to get the money to do that, or I got to start saving a little bit here and there and build up to it. Or, you know, there's, there's certain ways I can do that, but like,
you this is for you. So you need to find ways that you can do that, you know, and then they start asking, they start thinking about like, oh, how can I reach this goal of getting this toy? And, but you have to be, my cautionary tale is with, have to be careful with money because I just kind of want to say this early because you never want to use it as like a, a punishment or like a, I don't hate to use this word, but like almost like a weapon with your kids. You know what I mean? It's like, you have to be careful because you wouldn't do that with
Nate Reineke (07:15)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (07:33)
anybody else really, right? So it's kind easy to do that when you're like, again, low willpower and you're like, you know, you start talking about the money, so you have to kind of really make sure you keep the two separate. ⁓ yeah, in those moments when the store it's like, it's really good to talk about that real world and usually get some kind of thinking and that kind of calms them down, you know, they can't get upset and be thinking a lot. And if you can catch it in time, yeah, and so hopefully starts to save those outbreaks in the store if you're lucky.
Nate Reineke (07:53)
Yeah
Yeah, so
you keep talking about hard work, right? Like how does that go when you're teaching, you know, your maybe your daughter's maybe four or five at the time. How do you start getting them to think about hard work?
Kyle Hoelzle (08:03)
Mm hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's a really good question. ⁓ Like all things, I read this somewhere, or heard it from a sage of some kind that told me that ⁓ you got to be careful starting the money conversation too early. Like with real money, like starting the building, what you're talking about, building this understanding of work and then reward ⁓ with money too early. Because when a kid's like three or four or five or six, don't
Nate Reineke (08:21)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (08:43)
It's just kind of money's like it won't mean anything to them really, you know what I mean? And so they're not really quite mature enough to understand the money system yet, but they can under you can still ⁓ So this again, this is something I heard from someone else but you can still start to interpret this at an early age by like kind of like a Another reward system. So what my family did was we took like a clear mason jar and we got some like
glitter spray paint or whatever, you know, you can put little paper stencil cutouts on, you could spray paint it fun colors. But we left like one line all the way around the jar. And that was the goal line. And as your child, if say they're four or five, and you want them to exhibit a certain behavior, like when you come in from school, I want you to hang up your jacket every day or your backpack or something like that, just one little responsibility thing, they could get a chip in the jar. And then you can add on little more responsibilities, like things that they're in their world, know, things that are in their level, you know.
Nate Reineke (09:10)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (09:37)
Hey, know, I've learned tying your shoes. Every time you try, you get a chip in the jar, you know, and then when the, when the jar chip hits the line, you have some pre-designed reward, you know, like ice cream trip or trip to the park to play on the playground or whatever it is that's in your family's values or something you want to do to have fun with your child that they'd be excited about. They got to be excited about it. And so that's how you can start introducing that hard work. You get a reward, but you want them to be working on something that
Nate Reineke (09:57)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Kyle Hoelzle (10:06)
they should be working on. can't have a five-year-old out raking leaves or something.
Nate Reineke (10:08)
Yeah, right. I
you know what? It's funny. I probably learned this from you or something but about the I think we call it a token economy, you know, you earn a chip because they don't know what a dollar is ⁓ I'm struggling because my seven-year-old What is actually difficult for them or like? Qualifies as hard work is much different than my four-year-old So it's like my four-year-old has to do something and I'm like, hey fair is not always equal here
You gotta like go clean your bathroom and he has to like wipe half a window. You know, it's funny. I, ⁓ recent story, my, my oldest is in Spanish immersion. ⁓ I guess, ⁓ my wife is half Mexican and so we want him to learn Spanish and, ⁓ he, can, from picking him up from school, I know that he knows Spanish pretty well, but he never wants to speak it at home.
Kyle Hoelzle (10:45)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nate Reineke (11:07)
So I was like, I have the tokens and everything. Normally it's pretty hard to get a token. I'm like, I'll give you two tokens every time you speak Spanish to somebody. And he's got like Spanish speakers in the house. gets grandma and everything. So he's like, ⁓ and it's on. And now he's speaking Spanish all the time. It's like overloading with tokens.
Kyle Hoelzle (11:20)
I'm sorry.
Look at that.
Yeah. what you're really, if you, the real world, there was like, Hey, look, you're studying harder and you're learning Spanish faster and you're getting a reward out of that. Cause someday you could get a job doing business, international business and could be bilingual. So you never know, you know, you never know where that's going to lead.
Nate Reineke (11:33)
That's right.
That's right. Yeah, because
he doesn't really understand why he has to learn it, you know, like, and so you have to reward him more than just like, go to school because I'm making you learn Spanish if you want if you want that behavior. OK. ⁓
Kyle Hoelzle (11:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's great,
man. That's great.
Nate Reineke (11:57)
Tell me about ⁓ some of your family philosophies with money. like guidelines around money, anything that you talk about at the house that has worked well with your kids or maybe even in your marriage.
Kyle Hoelzle (12:10)
Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I got, I got a handful of things that come to mind. ⁓ I kind of alluded to this earlier, you know, my, my, my dad's philosophy with money and my, mom's philosophy when he kind of mirrors my, my current household. My, my wife's originally from Idaho and from farm country. And so she was kind of raised on that hard work, honesty, grit, she calls it grit. We sum it up in the word of grit. And we say that in our household in certain situations, ⁓ it's like a one word thing we say to our girls and they're like, okay, I get it. This is a mother.
Nate Reineke (12:27)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (12:40)
tighten down the bootstraps, know? So ⁓ that's kind of my wife's angle for hard work and her kind of focus around money is just like, she just puts her head down and works and good things will happen, right? And I'm more of the like, hey, let's plan, let's count all the beams, let's do the financial planning thing, right? And so I have a much different approach to it because, and I think we bring a good balance because she reminds me that I have to live life, you know, like nothing's guaranteed.
Nate Reineke (12:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (13:10)
And so you can't necessarily save everything forever just for this one outcome in life and at the end, because that might not happen. I think even though we're the financial planning advising, you'd think we'd say save every dollar. I think that's not true. I think that's not sustainable in life. think you gotta find ways to identify your values and spend money on that. I think that's the part my wife plays heavily. She focuses on the family values and make sure that we have that family experience together.
Nate Reineke (13:37)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (13:37)
Because if it was me making decisions to go to Disneyland or do that, it'd be a whole other big, huge thing. Right. But she just, she makes it happen and I make the, you know, we all make it happen together and it's, ⁓ you know, so it works great. And that's kind of how my family was actually growing up. Honestly. My mom was the same way. She was like, she's like, gotta live in the now because life's not guaranteed, you know, but within reason, within reason. Right. And that's why I think planning comes in. That's why I love financial planning, because once you identify your savings goals and you know how much you have to do to live.
Nate Reineke (13:44)
Yeah.
That's right, yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (14:07)
And so that's, I think that's the beauty in that, but yeah.
Nate Reineke (14:08)
That's right. Yeah, this this
reminds me of I don't there's probably a term for it out there in the podcast world, but it's like mindful spending. You should spend money on things that are important to you. But where it gets away from people is when they start thinking that everything's important to them. You know, like, I really want this. That doesn't mean it's a value of yours. Like, you know, you and I are the the ⁓ old car gang.
Kyle Hoelzle (14:19)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Nate Reineke (14:38)
Like we have old paid off cars because I just kind of don't care. Of course I'd like a lovely like fast car. I mean, that'd be great. But do I really value that over like a family experience to do in New England? Probably not. So I just keep driving my old car. But the part that I've learned for my kids is that they immediately think just because I want something that I value it. And that's really hard to teach to kids.
Kyle Hoelzle (14:45)
Yeah.
you
It is.
Nate Reineke (15:06)
Like they want
it and therefore they think they value it. taking them through that thought process, and you and I before this episode started, like, huh, we're not experts in this. There is no right answer to parenting. ⁓ Yeah, but ⁓ I think what I have tried in the past is I have explained, recently we were at Guitar Center. I used to spend my summers sneaking into Guitar Center and playing the drum sets.
Kyle Hoelzle (15:19)
100%, not a right answer.
Nate Reineke (15:35)
you know, before I saved up enough money to buy my own. And my oldest wanted to buy something. He like got birthday money and he wanted to spend all his money on this thing that he just found out about. He'd never heard of it before in his life. And now I can have enough money. And I had to give him the conversation about like, do you really want this? Think about how often you would play it. We had the whole talk at the end, you know, he's kind of upset and he wants to buy it anyways. I'm like, okay, you can buy it if you want. And I know what's going to happen. Obviously he's going to run out of money. He's not going to get the next thing.
But you have to let them live with the consequences and just do your best to walk them through. Do you actually value this thing? But I wanted to ask you about saving. How do you explain? Actually, no. We're going to talk about this at the end. I'm going to save it, OK? OK, so hard work, delayed gratification, but also a balance with living and enjoying life. Because kind of, you know.
Kyle Hoelzle (16:14)
you
Thank
Nate Reineke (16:34)
That's what money's for. Money's for security and enjoying life.
Okay, ⁓ let's see. Do you have a chart?
Kyle Hoelzle (16:40)
I have a comment on actually something I
have, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I was just thinking about something you just said, you you're talking about the values, right? And I want to bring it back to the children again, because I think you touched on something really important. I think we're talking about like teaching earlier, I was talking about, you know, make sure that the chore the child's doing to get the chip or whatever is in their age age band, you know, or whatever for the appropriate for them. I think talking about values, I don't, I don't have the answer to this again, like you said, but I think
Nate Reineke (16:44)
Yeah, go ahead.
Kyle Hoelzle (17:07)
I think if your values are positive and they're aligned with you as an adult and how you want your family to view life and things, think that it's never too early to start talking about values. I think having the money conversation really starts with the values. think you said it's hard to teach and I agreed with you and I was thinking, this just came to me, I've never thought about this before, but I think one of the hardest things about teaching your kids values about money is I think a lot of adults, whether you want to admit it or not,
Nate Reineke (17:18)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (17:36)
don't know our own values about money. So like you have to identify your values as a family about money before you can teach your kids values about money. But as soon as you do that, I think you can start talking about it as soon as possible. I I was talking about a child in a line at three years old wanting a candy off of there. And you just, can start talking about like the values of health and the values of this and the values of that. You know, can start throwing your values in about your family, you know, whatever it is you want to do to try to talk them off the ledge about it. But when it
Nate Reineke (17:39)
That's right.
Kyle Hoelzle (18:05)
And you can do the money talk on things like that as well, you know, and you use the values around money to talk about the wedge of something that make them understand a real world. And what happens is once they understand it, it takes a little while, it's like a little sunk cost, but once they understand it, they stop asking because then now they know the answer, right? And they don't have to ask anymore. So.
Nate Reineke (18:12)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. That's right. Well,
it's sort of like if you don't understand your values, your child is going to figure them out without words. ⁓ They're going to soak up the values that you're showing either way. So for example, your parents, they talked about hard work, saving, ⁓ and the value that you got out of that was security.
Like they value security and whether or not you put a word to it when you were a kid or not, you took that in and now you value security. If they were able to say security is important, but you also have to live life, it would have been a faster track for you. But then later on in life, you realize, huh, I'm a security minded person. I probably got that from my dad, whether or not he wanted me to or not. And the scary thing is, if you don't identify your own values, some of those values that you don't
want, like not even value some of those habits or thoughts or whatever it may be, they're going to take on those thoughts ⁓ without you trying to get them to so scarcity is one that that I fear in my house because my wife grew up when she was growing up she was very poor and so ⁓ you know scarcity the scarcity mindset is a scary one for me I don't want my kids to have that although I want them to value security.
So, you know, the world is your oyster. You can go out and make it what you want and go do whatever you want for work. ⁓ But don't be too scared. You know, get out there and as Kyle would say, break some eggs.
Kyle Hoelzle (19:45)
Mm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yep. Felt forward.
Nate Reineke (20:00)
Yeah. All right. Tell me about your chore chart. Do you have one? What's your experience been with it?
Kyle Hoelzle (20:03)
Mm.
Yeah, I've had a chore chart and the chore charts worked well. ⁓ You kind of alluded to this earlier that it's kind of hard to separate the age bands once you start something. So my six year old immediately saw the effectiveness of my nine year old's chores ability and to get some dollar bills. Cause we started her on one dollar bills to do chores that probably took longer than a dollar's worth, but it's, you know, they need to help out around the house too. And we do have, I do want to say that we do have chores around our houses and my own family's values. We do have chores around our house that are not paid. It's just mandatory.
Nate Reineke (20:14)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (20:35)
⁓ family and I relay that back to whichever appeals to the child the most right on my own as you know team sports so I tell her like and was a team it's no different than a team we all have to pour weight on this team ⁓ teamwork makes a dream work you know that type of stuff and she that resonates with her but yeah we do have chores offline but ⁓ I was a little skeptical about the chore chart because first of all ⁓ you have to go to the bank and get a whole bunch of one dollar bills and you have to kind of keep a stash of ones all the time you know and so it's like you're going to the bank
Nate Reineke (20:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (21:05)
to get ones. But yeah, no, it's actually been really liberating. once I know it was messy at first, like all innovation or all new things, it was messy. Okay, but again, I failed forward on this one hard. Okay. Because I made some of the cardinal mistakes you shouldn't make in my low moments, you know, around the tour chart, you know, and I just realized I didn't feel good. And so I just, you you tighten up, you just the next day is a new day, you're gonna make it better. And that's what we've done. And I think it's really resonating now my
Nate Reineke (21:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (21:34)
third child is going to be the luckiest one because she's going to show to a fully, fully polished chore chart, you know, and have a dad running it effectively. But, ⁓ yeah, no, the liberation though, it came with my nine year old because she, she's like high energy likes to live life. she, you know, she likes to spend money. And so was like, okay, this is interesting. You know? And so it's like, we're talking about, basically I'm just talking about values with her, but the part that was liberating is like, we don't talk about buying toys that are not
Nate Reineke (21:41)
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (22:04)
Christmas birthday or any other sort of like holiday thing or gifts from grandma, right? Like anything beyond those moments, she wants a toy or something extra special. She doesn't ask me for it anymore because she knows the more chores she does around the house and the property, then the more money she earns and then she can buy something. And so it started out kind of rocky at first, like still trying to ask me to buy stuff. And I just kept falling back on the chore chart. I'm like, go home and.
Do more chores and come back and buy this later. know, save up your money, you know, start saving. And even though the reward to us seems really like, you know, buy this piece of plastic or whatever, you know, for 30, 40, $50 or never do that. Well, you're not, you're not technically doing that. They've earned, they've earned that now. You know what I mean? And you're getting something out of that. You're getting your child's learning. Oh, if I work hard, the more I work, the more money I get or the harder I work, the more money I get. Sometimes I give her like jobs outside the chore chart. Like, oh, if you want to vacuum the whole car, like.
Nate Reineke (22:34)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (22:58)
you can do that and she's like, well, how much are gonna pay me? And we started like negotiating about money a little bit. And it's kind of funny. And I'm like, well, what do think the job is worth? She goes, oh, I don't know. And she sort of throws out a number and it's like really high. And I'm like, oh, no, I don't think so. I think I'd pay some kids this much to do it if they did a really good job. So anyways, it's fine. then, so she'll work extra hard because she has something in mind, you know what it is. But yeah, we don't, I don't have the tantrum, you know, the fight in the store anymore, ever again. We never even talked about it. She goes to store, she shops, she'll window shop.
Nate Reineke (23:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (23:28)
And then we just walk away. There's no conversation.
Nate Reineke (23:31)
Yeah, you know, what I found interesting is, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners have this too, it's kind of hard to, like you said, they don't ask anymore. Well, I think a lot of our listeners, a lot of physicians that I've spoken to, they grew up and their parents didn't have any money. And so it's almost like a gift to themselves that they can treat their child.
Kyle Hoelzle (23:58)
you
Nate Reineke (23:59)
But the real gift is giving your child the skill. That's the real gift. It's not that you have money so you can buy them whatever they want. It's that you don't want to raise a spoiled rotten child. And raising that child, that's the gift. It's not spoiling them. Even though sometimes you can, guess. I like to spoil them with like ice cream or something. So it's not like staring me in the face every time I walk in their room, how spoiled they are. But ⁓ yeah, I think that's...
Kyle Hoelzle (24:12)
Maybe.
Yeah.
Nate Reineke (24:28)
that it's more difficult, ⁓ but it's a long-term game because it becomes much less, it's more difficult to have them do chores. But in the long run, like you said, it's liberating because then you no longer have to deal with tantrums. So you both get something out of it. I love that answer.
Kyle Hoelzle (24:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been good and yeah, so go ahead.
Nate Reineke (24:47)
Okay.
Yeah, I wanted to know, ⁓ do you have a piece of advice that you'd give a new physician dad about money and parenting?
Kyle Hoelzle (24:59)
Hmm. ⁓
Well, had one answer and then I just thought of another answer. And I'm not sure which one to roll with, this one that just popped in my head, I'm just gonna go with it. But I was talking to my wife and when you say something or do something with a child, they remember it and then they'll bring it back up. They'll be like, yeah, but that one time. Yeah, but that one time. And so I was telling my wife, was like, we're like.
the judicial system, the legislation system and the executive system. Okay. Whatever we say like goes, okay. And then we set precedent and then people will come and argue with you over this precedent. but you remember this day and this day and this day when he allowed this. I know you have to allow it today. You set this precedent. You know what I mean? So I think, yeah, I think identifying your values early and starting to talk about that and starting to set boundaries around like they're healthy that that apply to the real world, you know, relating the chore chart appropriately to the real world, starting at the appropriate ages, whatever you feel is comfortable.
Nate Reineke (25:32)
You
Yeah.
⁓ huh.
Kyle Hoelzle (25:59)
⁓ I you know just things like that ⁓ Just remember you're setting precedent, you know, you can back things up. Of course, you're the adult you can back things up But don't once you keep going like you said like the habit the habitualness of it keeps going, you know You can I can't buy it every time. I'll buy it every time Unfortunately, the result is like you don't want your children go out there to think that someone's just gonna keep providing for me all the time, you know, I mean like you know, we you want to
Nate Reineke (26:12)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (26:26)
Most, you we want to launch our kids. mean, as hard as it is to have them not need us anymore. think at the end of the day, we want to launch our kids out of the nest. And I think that's really what's super important about that. So just remember what you're doing and, think, be really conscious of what you're doing because you are setting like precedent for, for potentially the rest of your child's life. But, know, again, every, every child's different, every child's, you know, I talk about my oldest, I do want to end with my middle child. I'm so private. She said, dad, I'm going to try to save a hundred dollars. And I said, all right, let's do it.
Nate Reineke (26:45)
That's right.
Kyle Hoelzle (26:55)
And she's been saving and spending at the same time and she's making her way there. So I'm like super proud of her. So every child's different. And, you know, it's just been really a joy to talk about this.
Nate Reineke (27:05)
Yeah. Yeah, that
is, that's a really good answer because you set press in with everything, right? And what's interesting is ⁓ there's some things at our house that we've allowed when our children were younger and they weren't, let's say, I don't know, didn't have, ⁓ they could, they could put it down easily. Like, let's watch a movie. And then once they get older, it's like, well, I want to watch a movie every day. But when they're younger, they're like,
half watching the movie, half playing, and it felt totally harmless. But now we've learned with our younger one that you set precedent early because you don't want to have to pull something away from them. So even with things like other parenting, like money is a big one. So that's great. Setting precedent, remember. Okay, I want to end with ⁓ something kind of fun. I'm calling this Teach Me Like I'm Five.
Kyle Hoelzle (27:36)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-mm.
Nate Reineke (28:01)
Okay, so there's some financial things in our world and trying to explain this to my kids has been interesting. ⁓ I noticed when ⁓ you have certain words in our world that you'll use to describe something and when you're talking to your kids you realize they have no idea what that means. In fact, I can't even explain that word to a five-year-old. So ⁓ I want to teach people how, maybe give them some words to talk about some important money things.
Kyle Hoelzle (28:01)
Okay. ⁓
Nate Reineke (28:30)
So ⁓ let's start with credit or debt. How would you teach a five-year-old about credit or debt?
Kyle Hoelzle (28:34)
Hmm... credit or debt
wow. this is fun. ⁓ so credit, I think I'm going to talk about, guess debt. That's the easier one to talk about. would say maybe. ⁓ so debt would be like, ⁓ so you want this toy right here, but you don't have the money. You know, you want to buy it, but there's no money. And so someone else has the money and they'll give it to you, but you have to pay it back. Plus even more money.
depending on how long it takes you to pay it back. And, you know, if you don't pay it back, then you get, you know, you still owe the money and other things can happen with you that's not good. And ⁓ so you want to always make sure to pay your debts. So if you do borrow money, which you got to be very careful to do and take on debt, but you know, so I don't know. I mean, that's, this is hard. It's really hard. This is a really hard thing to say. Yeah, it's tough.
Nate Reineke (29:23)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would say something similar and then it would be like, and remember, while you're paying it back, you're not able to save for other things you might want later.
Kyle Hoelzle (29:50)
That's nice, yeah. ⁓
Nate Reineke (29:51)
That one was hard because it's like,
because they do know what this looks like. They're like, well, I you have money and I'll give it back to you. I get that one at the store. I'm like, yeah, right, I'm not giving you any money.
Kyle Hoelzle (30:00)
Mm-mm.
Yeah, well, actually,
I've done with my nine year old. She's been like, I'm short dad, will you pay me back and then I can work on the chore chart? You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, this is a debt conversation. Okay. And so, and she's a little older so I can kind of, she kind of can understand a little bit more, you know, those terms and things. Five year olds difficult. Yeah.
Nate Reineke (30:13)
Yes.
Right.
Okay, I think you're gonna nail this one, okay? I got two more. Investing.
Kyle Hoelzle (30:29)
investing. ⁓ So investing is when you take money that you've earned and ⁓ you purchase ⁓ an investment and I guess you describe an investment as there's a whole variety of investments out there but what you're trying to get out of investment is because you're purchasing something that's going to produce a ⁓
Benefit a monetary money benefit to you. So you put money in and the hopes that you're gonna get more money back And it sounds too good to be true, right? But here's the thing the amount of money you get back will depend on how much risk you take and risk Risky, know risky like you climb something and you're really high up It's really risky that you might fall and get hurt. It's kind of dangerous. So these investments have a riskiness and
Nate Reineke (31:06)
Mm. Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (31:29)
The higher you climb and the more risky you get, then the more potential money you get. But that risk, if you do fall, means you could lose all the money you put in or some of the money you put in, and it might not be a good investment. You could lose money on that investment. So you have to be careful. You have to always know what you're investing in. But a well-chosen investment can be really good for you, if done appropriately.
Nate Reineke (31:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
There go.
Okay, I heard ⁓ it's like planting a seed and sometimes a tree grows and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. Okay. So we were talking before this episode and I don't know, I don't know if we were preparing for this, but I was trying to explain to my six year old about saving money.
Kyle Hoelzle (32:03)
nice. Okay. Like I can money seed. That's a good one. That's really short and sweet.
Nate Reineke (32:21)
So, and you've talked a lot about that, but six year, or sorry, seven now, you just turned seven. ⁓ They have no concept of saving. They're like, I'm saving for, I want this one thing. Like why can't I just buy this, blow all my money on this one thing? So explain saving versus spending to a five year old.
Kyle Hoelzle (32:36)
you
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I'm gonna go with my six-year-old because she's piggybacking my nine-year-old right now. And so this is actually happening in my household right now. she, you know, it started out in the early conversation. I guess it started with her when she was five. Yeah, so when she was five, it would start out with the store conversations again. I just use that opportunity moment. And she wanted to buy something. I said, well, this is why we need to save money so that when an opportunity comes up or maybe even as adults sometimes.
things come up that's not a good thing, it's just you need to have money for emergencies or something. But that's why we should always have some money saved or be saving money because we need to be prepared for the future because we don't know the future is going to hold. You didn't know you wanted this item until right now, but you don't have any money saved and I don't have any money saved for this. And so you just kind of start talking about saving money. And then I would go to the store, go, I don't have enough for this. I better start saving some money. How do I get more money? I better start doing chores around the house because God will give me a dollar. You know, and then
Nate Reineke (33:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Kyle Hoelzle (33:40)
And then at some point you wean them off
Nate Reineke (33:40)
yeah, you
Kyle Hoelzle (33:42)
the chore chart and they're just doing chores around the house.
Nate Reineke (33:44)
That's right. You were telling me,
I think you gave like a carnival example. It's like, what if something really fun happens and you don't have any money to take advantage of it? I was like, ⁓ that's, that's so good. Yeah. And so, know, when I first started talking about money with my kids, was, I definitely broke some eggs. mean, like it was not perfect. And because I think you, you get excited about something as a parent, you want to teach your kids and then you want to go upstairs and
Kyle Hoelzle (33:51)
you
Yeah. Yeah, and we.
Nate Reineke (34:14)
you know, tell them everything about it as if they're interested. But really what I keep hearing you say is you're taking opportunities in real life and you're taking a moment, even though you're probably busy and rushed and explaining to them ⁓ in real time how this works, how money works. And they can always call back to that. You know, like I have plenty of stories about at the store when like I don't want to be sitting there in the toy aisle talking about
whether or not they can or can't buy this toy, I don't think that they need. But that is the opportunity that they're listening because they actually want something.
Kyle Hoelzle (34:50)
Yeah,
right. And you know, I just remember something powerful my mom said to me and she's kind of a sage herself and her heart weren't battles in life. And she told me one thing about parenting she learned was you need to go into their world. You live in the adult world and you're not going to get any traction trying to get them to learn something or do something in the adult world. It's just, it's too much for them to understand. They're not there yet, right? But if you can find ways to have these conversations in their world, then
Nate Reineke (35:05)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (35:19)
they're going to be invested in that process. They're going to have, they're going to be listening. They're going to, they're going to care. Right. And so here's a perfect example how you can bring the two together. I was just thinking about this saving for Disneyland. My kids would be like, Oh, we want to go to the water park and blah, blah, blah. You know, and you're like, dad's thinking like a water park. That's $100 of gas. The ticket interest is $200. Food. There's another 200. You know, it's like easily a six, seven, $800 day. And you're like,
Nate Reineke (35:27)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kyle Hoelzle (35:46)
I would go a long way towards going to Disneyland. So then you would say to the kids, well, we could do that, but then I don't know when we're going to have to save longer for Disneyland. You know, and that's bringing like the whole global families finances in. again, I went into their world. They kind of brought me in and I kind of use it like, well, here's the real world. And I think don't be, don't be afraid to expose the real world to your kids in a way that doesn't, you you got to make sure not to, ⁓ you want to still not let them grow up too fast. You still want them to have your childhood.
Nate Reineke (35:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Hoelzle (36:15)
But at the same time, that's how many guys step into the other world at their level. And again, it's not easy to do. takes, it's a subtle art, but it's more opportunity. It's really actually a lot more opportunistic than I care to admit. Cause I'm not much of an opportunistic kind of guy. You know, I'm not, I'm not wired that way, but you, you do, have to be.
Nate Reineke (36:19)
Right.
Yeah, ⁓ yeah, definitely.
Yes.
Okay. I'm going to end this on that. ⁓ If you're interested in becoming a client and you'd like to chat with us, you can go to our website, go to physicianfamily.com, click the get started button. It'll take a short quiz, see if we are compatible with each other. And if we are, you can schedule an interview with us. But if you are not ready for that yet, you can send us a question. We might feature it on the show.
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